If she were capable, it wouldn't be an issue.
by Revue Party (2024-02-09 12:09:17)
Edited on 2024-02-09 12:11:56

In reply to: What I propose is the second option.  posted by BeijingIrish

Cannot Reply Return to Political

She's the least capable VP we've had in my memory, which includes Dan Quayle. And Agnew. Maybe she's more capable than Agnew but she lacks Agnew's corruptive skills.

If he'd chosen someone like Napolitano, I'd have no concerns about the VP ascending to the presidency. But he was/is in a damned if he did, damned if he didn't, given Clyburn essentially handing him the nomination in 2020.

A convention decision might be the best outcome. But it could also yield a big fruit loop.

A convention outcome would be horrible for the party
by wpkirish  (2024-02-09 15:38:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

I cant speak for every state but will use Illinois as an example. We actually have two elections the popular vote and the delegate election. Only Biden filed delagates so they will be "Biden" delegates. These folks were selected by the campaign by Congrssional District. Some are elected officials while others are just active party members.

As you would expect the delegates vary in terms of their politics from moderate to progressive but if Biden withdraws I dont think they would be required to support any particular candidate. The "party" would have no ability of the party to enforce who they want to be the nominee other than to appeal to people's better judgment. Needless to say given the breadth of views within the party arriving at a consensus candidate would not be easy and would creat a lot of uncertainty around the election.

OT: Quayle was VP before I started paying attention
by krudler  (2024-02-09 12:19:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

to politics. I remember him getting pilloried in SNL so just always assumed he was dumb, but that's also the rap given to most Republicans in power. Was he really that dumb/feckless or was he not given a fair shake, or a combination?
Isn't that the same standard being used for Harris?
by Kali4niaND  (2024-02-09 12:26:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

How many of us actually pay attention to what Vice Presidents do in the first place? I agree that Harris was not an effective Presidential candidate. But, I really can't tell you one way or another how she has served the President as VP. I'd say the same thing about Pence, Biden, Gore, etc. Cheney was an outlier in regard to his public influence on policy.
I pay attention to the Vice Presidents.
by Revue Party  (2024-02-09 12:45:04)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

Biden was surprisingly good. Maybe one of the best. Quayle was effective at drawing attention away from Bush but not necessarily strong. Gore was almost Clinton's equal. Pence saved the democracy, and probably had the shitiest job of all.

Harris has almost no resume. Nearly every speech I've heard her give is largely word salad. I think the VP position is a shit job. If Biden wins, the chances of Harris ascending to the presidency feels possible, so maybe I'm grading her tougher.

Probably. I think the issue with Harris is that so many
by krudler  (2024-02-09 12:36:21)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

of her public appearances end up with some kind of incomprehensible word salad that lends itself to mockery. I've never made the claim she's incompetent (at least not that I remember). My question is was Quayle really as dumb as he was made out to be?
Harris is VP in the 'Internet age'
by Kali4niaND  (2024-02-09 12:46:37)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

so her public speechifying (which I agree is often mystifying) is much more widely available and accessible. Also more prone to picking out bits and pieces to make a point. She's been treated the same by right-wing media as Hillary was, which explains why her poll numbers are pretty solid amongst Democrats and horrific amongst Republicans.

Quayle was seldom heard from, yet extremely uninspiring, as I recall.

Quayle was seldom heard from? Seriously?
by Revue Party  (2024-02-09 13:05:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

The media waited eagerly for every gaffe. And when potatoe hit, oh man. Ignoring the fact that he did it to keep from embarrassing a kid but the media loved, loved, loved it. It supported their dumb image.

His Murphy Brown speech might have been the most covered speech by any VP. And not in a good way, and rarely in the context of taking heat off of Bush, which I think was it's true aim.

Though, Andrew Johnson's VP inaugural address ruled.

IIRC, even Double Dare brought up the "potatoe" gaffe
by enginerd194  (2024-02-09 15:32:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

Although, Mark Summers definitely has a bias
Double Dare indoctrinated me. *
by The Holtz Room  (2024-02-10 12:51:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

Not in the same way.
by Kali4niaND  (2024-02-09 13:11:54)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

The events you mentioned certainly occurred. But they were pretty isolated incidents that came and went. But there wasn't the same daily drumbeat that you see today where everything people say publicly is available to edit, stream and promote. Hell, Fox News and MSNBC weren't even born yet.
I completely disagree
by El Kabong  (2024-02-09 15:36:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

Dan Quayle was a nightly target on the talk shows and (as noted below) was pilloried 10 times by SNL in a 4-year period. I'm not seeing coverage even close to that for Harris.
I think you're misremembering.
by Revue Party  (2024-02-09 14:24:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

'The Quayle is dumb' drumbeat was constant. Moreso than Harris. I actually hear, see very little about Harris now. It's nothing close to what Quayle received.

I saw him speak during the campaign at work. He held up a model Space Shuttle. And promptly dropped it and broke it.

I just checked. 10 SNL skits on Quayle....
by Marine Domer  (2024-02-09 14:51:22)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

Quayle was not and is not dumb. He was politically immature, and it showed.

He was a good soldier.
by Revue Party  (2024-02-09 15:03:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

He deserves enormous credit for the Murphy Brown saga. Politically, that is. It played to the base and changed the story.

From April 29 - May 4, Los Angeles was torn apart by riots and Bush was receiving tremendous heat.

On May 19, just two weeks later, the whole country was up in arms over the Murphy Brown speech. It shoved LA off the front page.

It didn't save Bush's presidency. He was already doomed. But I was amazed at the time how quickly people just latched onto it and let the riots fall into the background. As a cynical political play, I thought it was pure genius.

He's more than 4 years younger than Biden
by Raoul  (2024-02-10 16:15:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

and younger than Trump.

Fair enough. *
by Kali4niaND  (2024-02-09 14:43:53)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

I wouldn't say they were isolated and came and went
by DBCooper  (2024-02-09 13:53:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

The Murphy Brown speech was pretty important. As historian Stephanie Coontz stated, it "kicked off more than a decade of outcries against the "collapse of the family."

both that speech and the potato spelling error occurred when Bush/Quayle were working on their reelection. But, the jokes about Quayle were around way before that.

This SNL skit came out a year before the Murphy Brown and potato gaffe

Quayle wasn't dumb but I think he was lazy. *
by Revue Party  (2024-02-09 12:45:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply