Democrats were the party of working man versus republican the party of the rich. Back in the 1970 - 1980s there were pro-life democrats.

Now, the rich are voting for the Democrats and the poor and working class for the Republicans. The percentage of blacks voting for democrats is trending down slightly.

There is no longer a consistency on defense and trade. It is disgusting of Carlson saying positive things about our adversaries. But, before we deplatform Tucker, what do we do about Tik Tok? What do we do about many government policies?

I will vote for Donald Trump. Or, any Republican on the ballot. Many here imply it is beyond the pale. I respect the republicans who won't vote for him. He is not a man I respect. He is not the man I want to be or my kids to be. He is an amoral and immoral narcissist.

I have seen some YouTube videos about a Saint's vision of hell and his explanation. His point is people don't go to hell for being wicked. They go because they aren't good enough for heaven. I see both Trump and Biden not worthy of being president.

I will vote for the republican because I put life, specifically abortion, as the most important issue. There are posters who despise singles issue voters. They expect voters like me to give up our principles and be more pragmatic. They never throw us a bone and say abortion isn't that important. You want it to be illegal, we will make it illegal. But now listen to us on Ukraine, immigration and loan forgiveness. Never seems to happen.

I will vote for a republican because the democrats are making policy decisions I think weaken America, reduce our liberties and some are evil.

They weaponize the FBI, IRS and DOJ by going after prolifers, Catholics and parents.

I will vote for republicans because of last weekend funeral at St Patrick Cathedral in NY. I will vote against democrats because of last summer Dodger game. I will vote against the people who support the satanic temple. Those people raffle off a prize to pay for an abortion.

So to all those who say that is unacceptable to vote republican. I say the democrats are worse. If I have to denounce every republican because for January 6, you have to denounce the Satanists and all abortion supporters. You may not agree with my values. I think of the policies and tactics of the democrats are worse.

A group of explorers got captured by a tribe in the jungle. The chief gives them choice of either unga bunga or death
The first chose unga bunga because death was too horrible. All the men in the tribe then proceeded to have sex with him.

They gave the same choice to 2nd person. He chose death. Chief said death by unga bunga.

Point is voting for Trump is unga bunga. Voting for the Democrats is worse. It is choosing death by unga bunga.

To put it in an expression of yours, Trump FFS. Democrat FMFFS.

I have never said anything positive about his character. In 2016, he had already won the primary. He was only candidate when NJ got to vote.

I have read National Review and American Spectator since early 1990. I know of the Clintons and Biden and their flaws.

In 2016, I knew of Trump and his flaws. I also knew of HRC. I would vote for Joe Biden over HRC.

I view Biden as every bit as sleazy as Trump. And the progressive policies being pushed by Democrats are unacceptable to me.

Voting has consequences. After Watergate, the Democrats took control of Congress and built a huge administrative state. I do not want that again.

The policies pushed by the left like CRT and allowing schools to hide things from parents are more likely to occur with Democrats being elected.

I am not going to not vote for 10 to 20 years until all the Trumpers are defenestrated from the party. By then, a Democratic controlled Congress and presidency will have passed reparations and non-citizen voting. Before I get a FFS, NYC city Council has pushed for non citizens voting. Many government bodies have passed or are studying reparations.

Cross, in this thread, you said dipshits like me are ruining this country.

I disagree. I am a member of my parish finance committee. I am a member of the Knights of Columbus and Holy Name Society. I am one of the 20% who show up whenever needed. I was a member of the fathers club. I am a lector and Eucharistic minister. I belong to 3 men's prayer groups. I pray the Rosary on first Fridays.

For many of these events, we may get a maximum of 20 people. On the First Friday of February, there were 4 of us to pray the Rosary for the unborn. I have already signed up for the Lenten fish fry. The dozen of us will work 8 hours to serve 350 dinners. I have also signed up with 6 people to serve coffee to a high school father-son breakfast.

I don't break any laws with the exception of speeding. I don't see how I am ruining America.

“Isn’t that special?” And who could be the leader of the Democratic Party? Let’s see…could it be…Satan???

“After Watergate” the Democrats took over control of Congress?

They had control of Congress since the Eisenhower administration.

You’re voting for a guy who tried to overthrow a free and fair election. He has no respect whatsoever for the Constitution of the United States that he swore to uphold. Don’t give me this other supposedly principled bullshit.

Probably not worth engaging and expecting a rational outcome, sprack.

Personally I will never denounce the Satanists - I fucking LOVE Black Sabbath.

sorcerer of death's construction

When it comes to Trump, nothing is funny. You may not care about continuing to have a representative democracy, but I do.

about Trump that are funny. His hair, for instance, and his fake tan. I don’t think hyperbole serves the cause here, and you know I despise Trump.

I’m returning the favor.

My belief is that government should protect are rights. Democracy is less important
Two foxes and a chicken voting on the menu. Protecting the rights of the chicken is more important.

I don't believe the Democrats will protect the Liberty of all its citizens.

But then, do you believe heroin should be illegal? Because if you do, you’re against liberty. Do you believe abortion should be legal at any time for any reason? Because if not, you’re against liberty.

Liberty is a squishy term. Should you have the “right” to walk around naked in public in front of small children? Shout fire in a crowded theater? Defame people? Because all of that is arguably “liberty.” But it also depends upon whose rights you are protecting. Do victims have rights?

I’m no Democrat, and worry about some of the modern hard left agenda, thought police, wealth tax proposals, etc. But Donald Trump certainly does not have a perfect “liberty” score.

Here’s an example. Did you support Ron DeSantis going after Disney because of their stance on LGBTQ? Was that an appropriate use of government power in pursuit of “liberty”? Was Donald Trump threatening to imprison political opponents, or threatening private corporations if they moved jobs or capital overseas “liberty?”

Just as confused as most libertarians.

They say rationalizations are better than sex. When's the last time you went a week without a rationalization?

Scott Adams is also playing the hyperbolic nonsensical card to justify horrible decisions. Democracy is now dispensable if it's in the way of fealty to Trump.

THEY'RE EVIL! I can't help but picture Anakin Skywalker and his fateful horrible line of dialogue.

I the essential right is life. All others are derived. Freedom of conscience is next as manifested in first amendment. I do believe society can have restrictions because many activities may be desired by individuals but harmful to society at large.

My school board is being sued by state. NJ believes certain information should not be shared with parents. Ultimately, someone makes the decision. Who gets to do it? If the federal or state governments disapprove of something should they censor it?

I haven't said anything positive about Trump. I would prefer he wasn't running. But, that still leaves us with the Democrats.

A gambling degenerate would call that a tell.

Dipshits like you are ruining our Country.

protects individual rights / liberties?

...by George Lucas.

I'm sorry. That was mean.

The litany of people in the Republican tent includes such fine citizens as:
-White Power Movement
-Gun Rights Activists
-Men’s Right Activists
-Polygamists
-Theocrats
-Authoritarians

Every party has bad fringes, so voting for them is never pure. It’s fine you value the unborn over currently living individuals, that’s your choice, but don’t try to justify it by calling out fringe beliefs of the other party while not acknowledging the ones in your own.

The Democrat party's single most important issue is abortion. There is no item on the bill of rights that is even close. That is not a fringe position. Andrew Cuomo lit up the Empire State building when he signed the most radical abortion law.

Gov of Virginia was asked about a baby that survived attempted murder via abortion. He said would be decided by mother and advised by doctor. Again, these aren't fringe. They are the essence of the party.

Which is the formal name for it. Let's not start with that whole Trumpian slang thing, it's unbecoming of this board. I would say the same if someone started spouting "Rethuglicans".

It is fine if that is your opinion and feeling on the subject of abortion, but understand that we are governed by secular laws and many people will disagree with you. Compromise is how we govern.

Also remember that 50 years ago most Christian groups were in favor of many forms of abortion with only Catholics being the predominant anti-abortion group. This is to say that views change over the years - to suggest they've always been this way is highly hypocritical.

Just think of it as Republicans and Democrats. That was what auto complete offered.

My point is to counter the view of Sprack and others. Are not morally obligated to vote for Democrats. We do not have to refuse to vote for all Republicans.

Fifty years ago there were pro abortion Democrats and Republicans. There were pro Life people from both parties. The Church has been consistently anti abortion. I support that position. The government has used SWAT teams to arrest some supporters.

That is not a strong endorsement of compromise.

And that "trumps" everything else. I happen to agree with overturning Roe v. Wade, by the way. I always have.

He should have been impeached, removed from office and never allowed to run for president again.

It has absolutely nothing to do with what party he's in, or rather, what party he has taken over. If he thought he could take over the Democratic (sic) Party, he would have tried that. He doesn't really believe in anything but himself.

Anything but himself. However, the Democratic party believes in many things I believe are evil. And many of those things are the DNA of the party.

I'm not talking about any Republican. I'm talking about Donald Trump.

Do you have respect for the Constitution of the United States? He doesn't. Maybe when he's convicted of it in a court of law it'll dawn on you.

how will he be able to make his anti-abortion stance known?

Ah, well. Single issue. Logic is not included.

The Republican Party supports no limits on gun ownership, thanks to that lovely policy we have the worst gun crime rate in the developed world and get to witness children gunned down at mass shootings at least once a year. Are they not worthy of your support? It’s not so darn black and white.

If the Republicans nominated a guy who’s stated platform was that he was going to enslave the entire country, seize all the assets and rule as absolute monarch but came out strongly against abortion (because he wants more slaves) you would vote for him over Joe Biden. Right? If so so we have nothing to discuss as we will never see eye to eye. Hint I’m not an abortion fan either.

It's intrinsically evil and participating in one automatically self excommunicates the person.

Regarding gun control, the Democrats are horrible. Look what we did with all those guns in Afghanistan. We didn't do any due diligence on the Taliban. Next we have NYC. A recent arrival only 15 shot up Time Square.My friend had a very difficult time getting a gun in NJ.

It would seem that the good law abiding people will follow the laws. But the scofflaws not so observant.

Remember when Plexico Buress was arrested for bringing a gun and it discharging a few years ago? Well the law he was convicted of breaking was overturned by SCOTUS on 2nd Amendment grounds. Maybe that tragedy in NYC doesn’t happen if the law still stood.

Last time I checked, ownership of guns was protected by the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution.

That document mentions none of the other people in your group.

I've never owned a gun in my life and probably never will. But I will fight for the right of people who want to own them because the Constitution says they can. I will also not allow the actions of mentally ill people or people using guns illegally (e.g. underaged people) to affect my belief that legal gun owners should be left the hell alone.

or are we only morally allowed to be women’s rights advocates?

You’ll see why, it’s the new name mysogynists and incels call themselves. It’s all about Men’s rights (to rule over women)

and misogynists, right? No one else?

It's the way the term evolved and the primary meaning.

No, what you are probably thinking is not, and it's also not what vermin is referring to either.

Think of it this way - James Brown sang "say it loud". We think nothing of it. It doesn't mean you can't be proud of who you are as a white person, but you'd never (I hope) refer to it as "white pride".

Unfortunately because of the broad use of it by the fringes the word has become tainted and it’s no longer innocent. Much like how I can’t flash the ok sign anymore (thanks to the white power people.)

flashed multiple times over the last few years, and no one cares or brings up "white power". It seems one group of people is more focused on this "issue" than others.

and assault rifle/military grade type of stuff?

...but the majority of gun-related crimes involve pistols.

The NRA opposes any curtailing of selling guns, no background checks, no age limits, no restrictions. Thats the gun advocacy group. Sensible restrictions are not tolerated, which I would prefer. However, if you asked me if I could chose the gun laws we have currently in this country compared to anywhere else in the western world, I would chose the later. How many inocent children have to die? We can’t even have a Super Bowl parade anymore for Pete sakes. This holding the line and blocking any restrictions is going to eventually lead to a massive backlash that will give us European laws (which I would prefer a little more leniency.). The opinion of Gen Z voters who have dealt with this shit first hand.

• Click here for link at https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/08/millennial-gen-z-re

1. Do you consider opposing unrestricted abortion choosing valuing "the unborn over currently living individuals"? I like an explanation on that.

2. Not every "gun rights activist" takes the fringe position you assign. So if you're going to paint with that broad a brush you should be prepared for someone to make fun of your painting.

3. And is NARAL any less extreme in their views on abortion, a right NOT enumerated in the Constitution, than the NRA is on gun rights? I think they've both lost control of common sense. But a lot more "innocent children" die every year from abortions than ever die of gunshots.

1. No, but someone who is a single issue voter is by definition someone who values unborn life over living life as taken to the extreme, someone could be the second coming of Hitler but so long as he was anti abortion a single issue voter would vote for him over a moderate Democrat.

2. I’m really tired of the gun lobby at this point, our gun violence is a national disgrace that happens nowhere else in the developed world. Any change to curtail it is fought vigorously by powerful groups like the NRA. If you are a member and support them then that’s your view too.

3. Who says I’m part of NAARL they suck too. Why can’t we have a moderate position on abortion? Because that’s where I am at this point. I want exceptions for rape and incest. I want no restrictions if the mother’s life is in danger. I want paid maternity leave that can be taken after and before birth, I want free maternity care along with a vigorous adoption system to potentially convince women who would otherwise have an abortion to consider bringing to term and adopting. I bet a decent amount of people would be with me.

He is seen naked with a revolver and in other pictures he is seen with an automatic


He was not going to be prosecuted l. Now for just one. Part of my rationale for not voting against Republicans is the weaponization of the various government organizations.

I have yet to see any one protesting that. And he threw a gun away

isn't weaponizing anything.

He's a crook. It's called the rule of law. Republicans liked it before. Big rule of law guys. Now, not so much. The defense of Trump isn't that he's innocent, it's that he shouldn't be punished.

Didn't the whole Hunter Biden thing just fall apart?

to vote for a candidate who literally leads chants about locking up his opponents at rallies? I wont even debate whether you are right about Democrats weaponizing givernment (needless to say I disagree) biut saying you are against it and intend to vote for Trump leads me to believe you have less issue with the weaponization of government and who is doing the weaponizing.

Trump hasn't been very successful at it. I am against him doing it. However, the Democrats have been very successful.

HRC violated the law with her server and deleting emails. She worked with a law firm that worked with the Russians to accuse Trump. The Democrats used the Mueller commission to go after Trump. All based on a dossier that was paid for by HRC's supporters.

A abortion protester was arrested by a SWAT team in front of his family.

It is not good for the country

My point is we have crappy choices on both sides. Trump is a bad person
Biden is equally bad. I also believe his policies are wrong or evil.

Too many here think they and the Democrats are morally superior. I disagree.

What is great about the bill of rights is we can disagree.

The people using guns at that parade were using them illegally and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

If "we can't even have a Super Bowl parade anymore", that's due to gangs, not due to guns.

Do you think it might have a little bit to do with our lax sale requirements, and zero responsibility for selling parties to make sure a gun doesn’t end up where it should? How do you know the guns are are even illegal? They may have been bought lawfully.

from just a couple of sellers.located outside the City limits. I am sure that is a coincidence. The iron pipeline from Southern States with limited gun restrictions to Northern States with more restrictive gun laws has been written about extensively. The State of Tennessee loosened their gun laws a decade ago to permit storing them in vehicles with no penalty for leaving them unsecured. During that time nearly 30,000 firearms have been stolen from vehicles. In 2022 there were 5,000 guns stolen from cars in the state.

I grew up with lots of friends who hunted and know many who have one for "protection" but this quote from the sponsor of the legislation exemplifies the problem to me

"Listen, freedom comes with some dangers. That's one of the things that made our country great is that we put the power in people's hands," said Rep. Jeremy Faison, an East Tennessee Republican who sponsored the 2013 legislation.

And prosecute the straw buyers purchasing the guns illegally.

warnings?

The idea we can do nothing while kids die in their schools due to a tortured reading of the second amendment is shocking to me.

As Scalia wrote “Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited,” “the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

Gong back to the original idea,the wording may have been too broad but I would include gun rights groups who push the idea of no restrictions whatsoever and talk about second amendment solutions to elections are every bit the problem of the other groups.

But the vast majority of red-flag laws in the country are never utilized. I would prefer they would be. I'm all in favor of prosecuting parents of underage shooters, for example.

language may have been imprecide I believe vermin's original post would distinguish between your positions when they get fleshed out (which are likely in line with 90% of the gun owners) and those who say no restrictions ever.

I'm fine with more responsibility for selling parties.

George Carlin always said the way to really hamper the drug trade in America wasn't to go after the dealers but rather the bankers who launder the drug money. Maybe a little hyperbolic, but I saw the wisdom of it.

The way to put a dent in the gun trade is to go after the straw buyers with zero tolerance. But that's too much of a nuance/inconvenience for prosecutors, especially where I live.

What are they to do about sellers in Indiana or Tennessee?

Do you support closing the gun show loophole / private sale exemption? Do you support a database of purchases where law enforcement could look for patterns that might indicate straw purchasers?


These are the type of regulations the most extreme guns rights advocates oppose.

I kid, but the sheer number of guns in society basically is causing their misuse. It's inevitable. When you have access to destructive, easy tooling with low barriers to entry, it becomes a solution to your problems.

Gang violence and mass shooters are distractions (albeit deadly ones) for our real problem - the proliferation of firearms with no training or sense of responsibility. Angry? Pull out your gun. Fearful of someone bringing a gun to your movie? Bring your gun! More guns means it's more likely someone will misuse one.

Look, I own several firearms myself, having inherited some and purchased some others. I have a CCW permit (which, thanks to our generously lax interpretations of the 2nd, my state is one of the diminishingly few that actually makes you show you can handle a gun properly before carrying).

I'd give them up in a heartbeat if it'd mean fewer deaths. I don't for one second think "I need a gun when the people with guns come for me!". If it's come to that, there are many other things that have failed.

The 2nd was created for militias in defense against the state and kings - honestly I simply disagree with the courts' interpretations for the past 30 years. It's nowhere near the 1st in terms of natural rights that we imbue on humans, but damned if you'd know it from looking at the way we worship and revere it.