context, taking it from a well-known liberal publication like the Telegraph.

Man you're petty, but at least you followed that terrible post up with another embarrassing post (from an even worse source - that looks like it got rightfully bad-deleted) about some Nancy Mace interview claiming she said something she didn't.

And I really don’t care if you think it was.

Trump said exactly what the post said he did, and was not “out of context”. It was reported by news organizations on the left, right and center, including the Sunday morning shows, but here the thread got hijacked based on the source without addressing its accuracy. It was classic “shoot the messenger”.

The Mace source was bad, I will admit. But the Trump quote was accurate, and the expanded quote was arguably even worse.

I admit appearing on Maher probably will get anyone worked up, but she tried to go in as "well yeah that Trump guy is bad, but we need to focus on the disaster of four more years of Joe Biden" as if it was 2012 and she was running against Obama.

This is what bugs me - for the umpteenth time, I get it - I'm not expecting classic conservatives to go nuts for a Democratic agenda. But conflating the two as "both bad" is just dishonest.

I also disagree voting for him is an endorsement. Under our current system you have two viable candidates and you have to pick one. "Who would you rather?"

Blame or change the system if you don't like it.

you still have made a choice.

I will choose Freewill

If "voting is an endorsement", I don't endorse either of them. If I say home, I can be ignored. What's my alternative?

It takes a shitload of money to get anything moved in politics, so you start locally. Run as an independent with a clear record, meet people, work your ass off. Win an election, find other like minded people, form a coalition. Eventually you get backing and can win regional elections.

This can be made easier by better voting rules. Ranked choice (whatever flavor) allows you say "look, I'm not crazy about this Biden guy, but he's still more preferable to Trump". You can have your protest vote and still have the better of two scenarios.

Over time this would allow for vote capture by third parties. How many people do you think would cast a Libertarian or Green party vote if they didn't think they were throwing away their vote? I'll bet it's a lot.

I would take issues with MD's suggestion that I am advocating a "moral" decision - I think it's more that there is a guy who's clearly a bad idea to the very fabric of our republic. If you live in a profoundly "blue" or "red" state, ok fine, I get it - your agency ain't a lot under our current system. Go nuts, vote your conscience. However, if you're in a swing state, you have the ability to influence the outcome, and I hope you can bring yourself to vote against Trump in some capacity.

Since Oregon is usually Biden +1000, I'm tempted to vote for Geddy Lee.

which is why I find this "you are morally required to vote to X" threads silly. Changing the system takes work.

I have written in the past if No Labels or another third party really wanted to change the system they would not focus on the WH but would start with Congressional or Senate races. If they were really serious they would include local and state races.

The problem with sending a message voting (particulalry with the Electoral College) is the is unlikely to be received. Lots of Republicans could say they are voting third party instead of Trump because they cant stand the idea of voting for Biden. If Trump wins I dont think the message will be received.

If you want to change the system then you need to commit to doing the work it takes to truly develop a third party (really hard and slow) or you need to work within the context of the party you support to change the dynamic of the party.

at least not completely. My point is I hear/read from a lot of people about what someone's moral obligation is for casting a vote. Voting is awfully damn easy these days. If someone wants to change things, as starters:

1. Educate yourself about the various choices. Read up on them. Ask questions.
2. Once you've educated yourself, but ONLY once you've educated yourself, go vote.
3. Vote for who you believe should hold the office. Stop wasting time with game theory as to how this vote or that will play out.
4. DO MORE than just vote. Donate to a candidate, or walk for them, or put up a sign, or talk with friends about them. Go to a meeting, or a speech. Ask questions. Don't just be passive.
5. Run for something. There are countless boards and advisory groups out there. Run for one, or at least go to a meeting.
6. If a candidate comes to your door, don't be the asshole that points at the No Soliciting sign and slams the door shut. Those folks can F right off.

unsuccessful run. One wound up being the parent of one of my children's teammates on a school sports team. Not sure if they remembered yelling at me from their gold cart as they barreled down their very long driveway yelling at me. I certainly remembered them. Another yelled at me when I returned to the house, noting that they already had told me that they were not interested. When I politely explained that I needed to check their dog's vaccination records as it had bit me and broken the skin (through pants, and I didn't realize it at the time) they were somewhat more polite. Then there were the garden variety "not interested" yellers.

I have been asked a few times by people to run again. I don't think that I have it in me. It's a tremendous amount of time and nontrivial amount of money (I self-funded, maybe I am stupid) to invest to campaign. Add to that the vitriol and untruths spewed on social media, being physically assaulted (yes, it happened, no, I was not hurt, the fact that it happened at all is the problem), and I have no desire to re-engage. Then I see proposed development in the area and I wonder. But most likely I will keep to myself, put in my time here, and leave the area if it becomes too much. It's depressing.

The idea that you lob a protest vote when you dont like the candidate and ignore the harder work that you reference and is required to build a party is where i fall on the line. If someone wants to move either party party or develop a new party the work you reference is what it takes.

If no labels really is interested in changing the two party system electing more people to the House and Senate woudld change more than a third party bid for the WH that is unlikely to win.

Ranked choice. If anything could weaken the current party alignment that'd probably be it.

is probably the most direct way to change the system. You cannot change the system without votes and money, and that can only happen when millions of people make the decision to move outside the two-party paradigm.

That said, I do agree that Trump is a uniquely bad option. I would likely vote for Biden if I lived in a purple state.

When the main parties were too similar and/or ignoring a major issue. Say what you will about them, the Democrats and Republicans have very different platforms and very few people are blase about who wins this one.