This is a good post.
by ewillND (2022-01-25 15:51:03)

In reply to: If I may wade in  posted by veets

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I have to be honest, your point 4 is complicated. On some level, we all want to present ourselves well and look our best--maybe not for others, but for ourselves. We all do that--on some level, it is why business attire exists. I think that we all figured that out during the pandemic, when sweat pants and a dress shirt where/are en vogue. And quite often, when I look at my schedule for the day, and I know it is going to be rough, I tend to spend more time on how I dress/accessorize that day. It's a "look good, feel good" thing that is entirely for me and not for anyone else.

But yeah, women tend to be judged on appearance before anything else. And that's really frustrating-- women who are not traditionally "attractive" are discounted, and women who are tend to feel that they are judged by the way that they look, rather than on their skill.

All of that said, it should never, ever be an "appearance-only" post.

Team USA basketball. National Honor Society. Notre Dame student.

"This". "Exhibit A."



Thank you. I was girding myself for a
by veets  (2022-01-25 16:04:10)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

talking-to. Like I said, its a work in progress.

To add a little. It is complicated. While I think most people would like to hear that they are attractive, it's very hard to give that compliment, even if it would probably make them feel good.

It's really all about context.
by ewillND  (2022-01-25 16:22:46)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If a woman is walking into a social event, dressed to the nines, then an in-person complement about how she is dressed is appropriate. And this would be true even for me--I am not exactly a 10, but I clean up well. Tell me that I look great. You would probably do the same for one of your bros.

In a professional setting...absolute no. No. Just no.

In the absence of context, such as the post in question--probably best not to post in the first place, unless it is mid-season, and she just had a career-best game. And don't mention her appearance, just her performance.

"Man, I am glad that we admitted women to ND. Player X just went off for 28 points, including 5 for 8 from the 3 point line, and hit the game-winner with 6 seconds left. Great game!! Go Irish!!"

This may seem elementary to you ...
by CJC  (2022-01-25 17:14:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But I think it's really helpful. Not that any of it is shocking to me, but it still helps to read stuff like this in black-and-white, including some of the thinking behind it.

As I continue to think more about this, the word "respect" comes to mind. If we ask ourselves how we can respect the person(s) in question, my guess is that we'll get it "right" more often than not -- assuming that we truly want to get it right.

While I think many -- although certainly not all -- men have improved in that regard in recent years (and I would definitely put myself in the "work in progress" category), there can be a difference between directly respecting (or disrespecting) someone and "indirectly" disrespecting (or respecting) someone.

A lot of guys, myself included, probably could stand to do a lot better at respecting the "absent" and also understanding how women in general can be disrespected by a comment or behavior even when it's not directed at them.

I think the post in question probably implicates both scenarios.