In reply to: When I compare Poulin's time to Jackson's posted by wearendhockey
Do those elite level of talent players not want to play in such a structured system?
The Fowler saga probably led to avoiding the headaches of high end recruits for some time.
JJ dipped his toe back in with McGroarty/Fleming who were both projected top-10 picks when they committed (think T Duke was also projected 1st round as well).
We don't get much recruiting news, but James Hagens did take an official visit last Fall before committing/signing with BC.
The current issue isn't JJ's willingness to get high end players on campus. It's getting the players on the roster. Which has been a problem for a variety of reasons (a number of which will be high hurdles any ND coach will have to overcome -- NIL, agents, NHL team meddling, homesick MN kids, etc).
Add in the fact we have a new AD who has zero sports/hockey background and I think it's not likely we see any coaching change. Maybe I'm wrong.
Notre Dame isn't likely to compete for top spots in the current environment. Like I said, you may not be saying that or thinking that. Frankly, it wouldn't be a complete shock if that was the case. NIL, constant transfers, 1st round picks bolting after a year if they show up at all where they initially commit, to me all of that sucks. Its one of the reasons I watch almost no college sports now, outside of Notre Dame. I am not a college football fan, or college basketball fan, I am a Notre Dame fan.
One thing that differs with hockey though when comparing it to football or basketball is the societal factors that probably make it a little easier to compete in hockey than football or basketball. I don't know how many of the top 100 basketball or football players Notre Dame can recruit but I do know they can recruit more of the top 100 hockey players.
I don't know, maybe Notre Dame can't compete in this environment. Maybe we missed our window and it closed 6 years ago. I have commented many times I wish Notre Dame would get around to winning a hockey title before I quit caring about ANY college sports. They'll probably bury me with this damn playoff beard I refused to shave off until Notre Dame won the whole damn thing.
There are barriers that should've been addressed years ago. But think it's recognized and being worked on now. And a number of those barriers would need to be addressed whether it's JJ or someone else behind the bench.
Hockey recruiting is such a crapshoot. The majority of the top kids commit early in their junior year, but even then it's hard to predict who will rise/fall in development.
Fleming is a prime example. He had 40+ offers when he committed in August 2020. He was projected around #10 in the draft rankings. And his development pre-ND just didn't live up to expectations.
100% agree the barriers to recruiting top-100 are different in hockey. It may not seem like it, but we are getting top-100 commits. What this board is looking for is the freshman who is a Hobey candidate the moment he steps on campus -- that's what we're missing out on.
What we can't have is our better commits in a class bail at the last minute. 21-22 and 22-23 set us back in building a competitive roster.
I don't think OSU/PSU really look much to recruit the top-25 kids in the current environment. This past cycle in August they were picking up 4 star type kids left and right (more kids in the 50-150 type range). Is that what we should be looking for? Maybe...that might be a better strategy that trying to compete vs BU/BC/Mich/MN and losing out on our targets (while plan B type players have committed elsewhere).
JJ did a podcast a couple weeks ago and talked about some of this stuff. Things like not targeting kids that have specific advisors/agents that won't get their kid on campus with us. And talking about targeting specific type kids for roles on the PP (something I think the staff has been terrible at over the years).
I'm optimistic that Sheahan will help target kids that fit what we need (less emphasis on size/physicality and more on skating/possession/puck moving). Looking at D commits I think that's happening.
And if we're kicked out in the first round of B10 tourney, the entire staff better be on the trail recruiting (including any kids they're thinking about taking in the portal). I think some of our portal "recruiting" has just been word-of-mouth and looking on paper rather than watching film. Brinkman on paper as a 4 year starter for the Gophers looked great...until you see him on the ice and realize he has cinder blocks attached to his skates (he's not the only transfer like that).
College sports as a whole is a lot less fun now that it has become more of a business.
Believe the players can use the NIL collective started by Brady Quinn (believe it centers on partnering with non-profits for charity work). Not sure if there are other ND collectives.
For comparison, Gophers have a NIL collective called Dinkytown Athletics (it even includes players getting a cut of beer/vodka sales LOL).
As far as individual NIL, Bischel held a goalie camp over the summer. And does some radio spots for a local bank. Other than that, haven't seen any other indication other players have personal NIL deals.
It's hard to verify the extent of NIL in hockey. Lots of rumors. But tough to tell who is telling the truth. Probably not wide spread except for the difference-making super high end kids where the recruiting battles are raging.
I stopped watching this years team when Simeone announced that BC had
four 1st round NHL draft choices in their freshman class. I realized
that ND had none on their entire team.
BC literally took the entire NTDP top line (all first rounders) and slotted them into their lineup this year. That has never happened before. How can any coach compete against that? No matter who is behind the bench, I don't see any Irish coach capable of recruiting at that level against the blue blood schools.
The problem isn't just more top talent choosing to go the NCAA route than ever. It's all that top talent consolidating at a few schools just in the past couple years.
The bigger problem for us is 4 of those schools consolidating the talent are in the B10. Just look at Michigan (2 1sts, 2 2nds, and 2 3rds on the roster) who won't finish better than 4th in the conference and is currently 15th in PWR. Even if we start landing some of the higher end guys, it'll still be an absolute dogfight in the B10 just for home-ice in the conference tourney.
HE it's really BU/BC separating themselves from others. NCHC it's DU/UND. It's a heck of a lot easier to compete for 3rd in those conferences (and get in the tourney) than it is in B10.
The B10 is a nightmare conference for tourney bids.
It'll be interesting to see how the tourney plays out this year. But the past 2 season, the Frozen Fours have been 3 #1 and a single #2 seed. With the loss of parity, are we in an era where #3 and #4 seeds really don't have much of a shot at winning it all?