After all of UConn's success - championships, winning streaks, great players, you still crave validation so much that one slight from a retired coach brings you here to seek acceptance from Notre Dame fans.
Why do you give a shit what anyone else says?
Really? That's the best ya got on a coach that took ND WBB to heights never before dreamed of? Wow. Just wow.
this post. Is it slap at MM because she stated that Pat Summit’s retirement/passing made WCBB diminished ? I guess some could have interpreted that as a tribute to Summit and not a dig at Geno.
I understand from the post that MM has never complimented a coach/team that has beaten her team. Is this correct ?
And, Geno has always been an upstanding coach, never taking even an indirect shot at an opposing player, coach or team. His warm handshakes after each game are evidently evidence of this.
For the record, I think Geno is a great WCBB coach, maybe the best ever. I just don’t get the post where the paragraphs begin with the caveats which then seem to disappear…other than a defense of the UCONN program, which of course is not needed.
Come on, you get it. ESPN has almost only covered uconn and had the game announcers talk about them even if they weren’t playing.
loves UCONN, the OP is correct in denigrating Muffet ? Got it.
Mr. Kelly, fair question. I take your last point that UConn and Geno are as you described them, but your view - certainly based on posts here - is in minority. Not to beat this to death but I've been a sports and ND fan since Terry Brennan, Hornung, and Digger days. As Ivy sports have descended to near club sport level, I've become a WCBB fan for 10 years, and love it best of all sports.
If you check my first post, I joined the Bench hoping to discuss with knowledgeable fans issues that are a tectonic threat to WCBB: NIL, Transfer Portal, etc., but as Mr. Baba implied in his response, this may not be the ideal place to do so. Nor is the BY. The ideal place is likely with someone like MM, as that's where my interest lies, and I'd be honored to do it. I've mentioned in past posts my regard and respect for MM, and would respectfully point you that the title of my post begins, "A Great Hall of Fame Coach..." No attack, no pejorative, no vulgarity, no anything other than to express my wish that someone who I admire hadn't done what she did because it was beneath her to do so. That was my motivation.
Permit me, please to to to respond to your last sentence in this manner. Based on their posts, many Benchers view UConn as the Death Star, Geno as Darth Vader, and MM as Princess Leia who needs defending. She doesn't because she's better than that!
I don’t frequent this site that much. My views on Geno, positive and negative, come mostly from reading media reports on his non coaching demeanor, watching him on TV and points brought up by posters on this board. And no, not all of the comments here are of the wild hating variety. You seem to have a tendency to over-generalize and reach conclusions from your interpretation of singular sound bites or occurneces. Not the best way to view things.
This is based on my observation of football recruiting. Two seemingly contradictory things can happen. A verbal commitment to a powerhouse programs or serious recruitment by Tier 1 schools can boost a recruit's ranking. Secondly uncommitted recruits late in the commitment cycle can also get boosted in their rankings (to increase click baits) and early commits can slide lower (again they engender few clicks late in the cycle).
It seems that the rankings react to how the services perceive top schools look at the player. If the 32nd ranked running back is getting a lot of love from Alabama, these services figure it's their ranking that's wrong and Saban hasn't lost his mind.
To be honest UCONN's WBB is in the position that they can turn down relatively highly ranked players. Serious interest by them may cause them to raise that player or, at a minimum, reexamine their ranking. I believe other top schools have the same effect, but to a lesser degree.
Thank you, I appreciated your explanation for some inner workings of recruiting services. I didn't imagine they followed as much as led. Following the implied logic, potential recruits ranked 1 - 10 in most years may actually be interchangeable or arbitrary. If so what is the ranking services value proposition and economic model if any?
Article referencing her original ranking below, final ranking of 21 is current on ESPN's site.
Article referencing her original ranking below, final ranking of 16 is current on ESPN's site. She ended up making barely any impact in college after stops at Seton Hall and Mississippi state. Hardly even a top 100 player for her class.
I admit not having paid much attention to this aspect of WCBB. Does that only happen with UConn recruits? The truly only instance I did notice was Kiki Rice being somewhere around #8 for most of this year and suddenly moving up to #2 by her UCLA signing.
Someone else brought up Senaia Chong. Other than her last play against Miss. State and a clutch basket against Maryland, I recall she was and might still be the lone 3rd round draftee to actually make it and stick with her team. Her pro coach credited her doing so with her UConn coaching/playing experience.
You're coming on this board boasting that Muffet is tarnishing her legacy when you don't even know the facts of what you are speaking about. Then you have the audacity to say you're "unbiased" with these comments. Get a life man and go find somewhere else to make your "unbiased" comments.
is a waste of time spent on a useless, petty points not worth the time it took to read them. Let's grow up and focus on more important concerns.
I agree this back and forth is useless
Let’s talk hoops and not here say
Two things stick out in my mind. One was likely a Freudian slip which I can kind of excuse, but the other was, for me, an unforgivable case of rumor-mongering on national TV.
The first one came during the Jan 15, 2001 ND-UConn game. For context, UConn was ranked #1, Tennessee was ranked #2, and ND was ranked #3. ND was completely dominating UConn (ND won by 16 points, they were in charge for pretty much the whole game, and it was really only because of Abrosimova that it was even that close). During that game, new came out that Tamika Catchings from Tennessee had gone down with a torn ACL and UT was seriously relying on her that year (think UConn's Buecker situation this year, but even more so).
Burke then asks "Who should now be #1?" She mentions that considering how the ND-UConn game is going and the injury to Catchings, of course you have to consider Tennessee as #1... (What?) You can tell by the setup that she meant to say ND, but in the back of her mind, she just couldn't get out the name of a team other than UConn or UT.
The second one came in 2012. The previous year ND had beaten UConn in the Semifinals when everyone was sure the Finals was going to be UConn-Baylor (Neither of those teams made the Final. ND lost to Texas A&M in the Finals). ND was returning almost everyone, having only graduated Becca Bruszewski. UConn had graduated Maya Moore. So the Big East coaches voted ND to win the Big East instead of UConn. It was a big deal.
So.... Of course Geno Auriemma starts telling some story badmouthing ND. Doris Burke decides to run with the rumor mongering and talks about it during the ND-UConn game. She says how if what she heard about had happened, she hoped that Muffet McGraw would have disciplined the player in question. Note: She said "If what I heard was true..." She didn't try to verify it. She just took what Auriemma said as gospel and decided to publicly attack ND during a nationally televised game. So what was this story? Well, I don't know the specifics of what SHE heard, but here is how it unfolded online in the various message boards.
First, they claimed that a ND player poked her head into the UConn locker-room after the game and yelled "Sucks to be you!"
However, quite a few people questioned how security would allow a ND player to have access to the UConn locker-room. So.....
It then became "After the game a ND player yelled 'Sucks to be you' outside the UConn locker-room."
However, once again people questioned that, since the two locker-rooms were on opposite ends of the court, security wouldn't have let the ND player be down the hall where the UConn locker-room was located. So....
The story then morphed into "She said it to UConn during the post-game handshake line."
Well...
It turned out that they found out who the supposed player in question was (Becca Bruszewski) and were finally able to contact her about it (She had been playing in Europe at the time. Sorry, Doris, but no way for McGraw to punish a player who had graduated!). She said that she basically said "Sucks to be them" to one of her teammates and apparently Auriemma had overheard her. It was never used as a taunt against UConn. It was something between teammates.
So yeah, fuck Doris Burke.
heard the podcast which I felt I needed to get context before my judgment. I felt reading that piece Voepel was assigned to respond since Muffet called ESPN out. I like Voepel a lot so I respect her, but I assumed they needed some "journalest perspective" to respond. It seemed like a professional response but left the reader thinking Muffet was petty and Geno was above it all (closing article quote "Auriemma, contacted by ESPN, said he had no comment on McGraw's remarks.")..ESPN article linked.
I plan on taking the time after the holiday blitz to listen directly to Muffet make my own assessment, but my simple question to you NYC Fan, did you take the time to listen to the podcast or was your post a sincere response to a potentially "biased" ESPN response article?
I listened to the podcast and mine was a sincere response. If you take all my comments about ND, Muffet, and critique of Geno, I have no reason to be biased. But nor am I in the business of being an absolutist, favoring a person, school or issue right or wrong.
Originally, having declared being a UConn fan, I thought I'd post on the Bench to exchange WCBB issues with a knowledgeable fan base. As with some BYers it appears that rather than engage on topics, if one is not 100% with the prevailing orthodoxy, one must be a biased, a troll, or whatever.
BTW - Thanks for putting your inquiry the way you did. Greatly appreciated, and Happy New Year.
The only non-biased person is a dead person. Get real.
but you can't communicate something a UConn lover dislikes or you get skewered. Some take the time to understand where you are coming from but lots of trash talk is permitted. I'll take the smaller Bench crowd anyday. After I listen to the podcast I may share my opinion but I doubt I'll think it tarnishes her legacy as she is who she is. I've defended Kim Mulkey who is clearly a HOF coach (and it took too long) and I don't think any of her antics nor quotes tarnished her legacy. She just "leaned in" and is now wearing purple and probably making more than Geno. I've always said if she was my coach I'd taken her with warts and all, much like why I loved Muffet as the coach for my school.
As for your perspective you see Geno with rose colored glasses. Geno is only gracious because his teams mostly win and when he loses to someone like Vic Schaefer for the frst time ever he can be that way. Muffet has beaten Geno more than any other coach and I have yet to see him give ND its due when he lost. It was always seemed like what his team didn't do. But to be frank I see ND and Muffet with the same glasses you wear with Geno and UConn.
Muffet and Geno have chosen a different way to move on after becoming a HOF coach. Geno is hanging on as long as he can while Muffet started a new career. As someone who has had my own challenges in leadership positions I am not one to criticize Muffet and have been big on defending Niele to give her time to make ND her own program and succeed. I don't think Muffet "left the program in tough shape". Only after Geno leaves and what happens to UConn the following years and we compare how Niele does we will ultimately know who left the program in better or worse shape. Hell Muffet did win a National championship (2018) as well as made the finals (2019) more recently than Geno (2016) so there is that.
Muffet is building her new career off being the outspoken supporter of women coaches and doesn't shy away from controversy so I am not surprised she took this position. She defends ND and her players which we love about her. ESPN (ie ACCN) will appreciate her for both her loyalty and opinions. Hell this is the same network that hired Paul Finebaum and unless you're an SEC/Bama lover, it's hard to like him.
Enjoy your holiday.
I accept most of your post but agree to disagree strongly on one point: I do not see Geno through rose colored glasses and have pointed it out here. Trash talk is everywhere including the BY, but respectfully, based on this particular thread it's not as vulgar or ad hominem
And when Geno finally retires, it will be the end of UConn BB. ND, Baylor, Stanford Tenesse et al can retire great coaches, and while it takes a while to replace legends (John Wooden UCLA) all have pedigrees that facilitate recruiting. UConn recruiting is Geno, and without him, there will be no recruiting. His successor is odds on bet to be a failure.
I'll look forward to your assessment of the ESPN article and podcast after the holidays.
She certainly didn’t tarnish anything, she simply spoke the truth. I’m betting she isn’t the only one who feels that way, she can just say it now that she isn’t coaching anymore. ESPN clearly has a bias towards UConn, it’s really easy to see. How many articles did the write about Paige’s injury? It was nearly every day for a week - I don’t recall seeing articles like that for other injuries.
Maybe not all recruits get a UConn bump after they sign, but some get huge bumps. There’s probably some that drop after committing elsewhere or even removing UConn from their lists.
Clearly pulls for the Huskies. Geno built a great program, but it will regress back to average in Storrs of all places once he hangs it up. No reason other than Geno’s past track record that a national recruit favors UConn. And Geno is feeling the now or never stress of not wanting to retire as less than an NC that year.
Other teams practice to see what they plan to do.
and no coach now or in the future will duplicate what he and his teams did, just like John Wooden and his UCLA teams.
If Geno wins another NC in a year or three, I think he'll retire. He's got a restaurant and am sure his wife would like to travel with him without worrying about recruiting.
Post-Geno era, UCONN will recede backwards until it can find another coach who can win but he/she won't be able to reproduce what Geno did. However, he/she can win championships, just not 11.
Rebecca Lobo is a UCONN alumna and yes she does have feelings for her alma mater like we do ours, but I do think that she is honest in her analysis of women's basketball and teams. She is not a 1 trick pony.
them to their 1st NC in 95. She has been great for WBB (College, Team USA, WNBA, analyst) a true HOFer. I see her as important to UConn as Ruth Riley was to ND. Geno parlayed that 1st NC and his ESPN proximity to recruit three of the greatest WBB players ever in Taurasi, Moore, and Stewart who lead UConn to 9 of his 11 championships. Without them he would have had the same number as Muffet.
I still think Geno knows that unless he gets another NC, Muffet one upped him inretirement with the most recent championship.
and UCONN has 11 NCs and is often in the discussion about making it to the Final 4 and another NC. Page obviously was a floor general, like Sue Bird and Diana Tsaursi before her. That is why she is under the spotlight and her injury reports fill the papers. ESPN is in my state of CT, and Geno built a dynasty there. Even Mike Golic respects Geno and what UCONN WBB has done.
As much as I love my alma mater, ND, reality is reality whether you like it or not.
Geno does a great job recruiting talented players and he is excellent at developing players. Maybe that is why players like to play for him.
HoopGurlz rated her #75. She was rated #3 in her state (not nationally) by MaxPrep.
She committed to UConn...
She was named 2012-13 Parade All-American Team's Girls Basketball Player of the Year.
Hmmm....
Thank you! We could probably name many more of those same situations if we dove deeper.
statue and remember the accomplishments, integrity and women's advocate that
she was and continues to be. Merry Christmas.
Now you can go back to the Boneyard.
You're only listing recent recruits, and your information is incorrect. Ducharme was ranked 41 by ESPN prior to committing to UConn.
Muffet is absolutely correct on this point. Go back through the last 15 years of recruits and you will see multiple examples of the "UConn Commitment" effect on their ranking.
It was completely uncalled for and it was like he couldn’t wait to take the shot. Again, he held on to this for 2 years. And you’re telling me she doesn’t occupy space in his head? He suffered some bad breaks this year, no one is denying that. But he just can’t help himself and he thinks he’s smarter than he is.
..this subject is days old and you're bringing it up now?
Let's take this at another level: I'm a WBB fan, albeit an ND alums and strong supporter and fan of this program, who happens to post on both McGraw's Bench and The Boneyard.
Yesterday, fans of all programs dropped allegiances and concerns -- some justified, some not -- and wished each other happy and safe holidays.
I'll do the same for you today. Enjoy your hoop and your outside life.
However, please think over what you just posted to see the huge amounts of holes in your argument. I'm sure you'll start hearing about it shortly.
ps. I will comment on one aspect of what you've said in regards to current rankings. MM was saying that UConn's influence is so great virtually everyone is listed for player of year rankings. She had no trouble with Paige but asked if any of the UConn players currently on the floor against Louisville looked "best at their position?"
The answer is "no." Westbrook, Williams and ONO -- while still fine players -- are nowhere near being best in class.
You poo poo this to "whores in media" just getting clicks. Well, when Mechelle Voepel does mock drafts putting Evina Westbrook at or near the top of her draft boards, I've got to wonder who she's looking at. Most WNBA teams don't have extensive scouting departments and this hype could be factored in, to the detriment of all concerned. It's a cumulative thing.
Once again: valid point by MM.
Switching to high school rankings: Caroline Ducharme was not a consistent Top 5 pick: she was injured often and was considerably higher in the rankings. Do the homework please.
It seems to me that Westbrook's tumultuous (to be nice) final year at Tennessee didn't help her case to get immediate eligibility at UCONN. One can argue t hat the bitterness and messiness of that "divorce" shouldn't matter, but I have to believe it played a part.
If my memory serves me correctly, Tennessee was sinking rapidly under Holly Warlick, and UT fans started to blame Evina. She and/or her mother started to get into it with UT fans, and it was very evident she wanted OUT. I think that an OK from the former school was necessary for immediate eligibility, and she wasn't going to get any favors. Apparently Jessica and some of the other players that transferred at the same time had more amicable breaks. Plus I thought two of Jess's teammates the year before had gotten immediate eligibility; so her ruling had precedent (if my recall is accurate).
Not you, but elsewhere are some ad hominem attacks, is that really necessary? Timing: I read the ESPN article only yesterday evening not long after it was posted. I agree with you that Seasons Greetings are warranted to one and all.
I've said before that I've been an ND fan since childhood and if I was around during Rockne days, I'd be there cheering via the best college fight song IMO. I watch the Gipper scene whenever shown. Having met some in business, I'm in admiration of the loyalty ND generates from its alums. So disagree with my views but kindly hold off "Troll" and bias accusations.
There's a BY element that regards any Geno critique right or wrong as near blasphemy, pointing to his 11 Titles, and asking how many titles has the poster won. Some Benchers have similar attitudes. During the preseason there were multiple posts criticizing MM's player handling and other issues near the end of her tenor and having left the program in tough shape. Why was it acceptable to critique her then but not now?
As for Geno and UConn hold sway over the NCAA, really? Over ND? How to explain the Jessica Shepherd transfer and immediate eligibility - without whom ND would have had a tough time winning that championship - while Westbrook's transfer required sitting out a year as was the rule?
As for Ducharme being #41, yes, but in the link provided that same sentence included "...at one time..." Come-on!
Geno is very much an acquired taste, has his worts, and they're not attractive. Yet I also note that Chris Daily has been with him for some 35 years, and his player alums are fiercely loyal to them as well. I would never expect Domers to like him.
In my first post I mentioned being a UConn fan, and appreciated being welcomed to post here. Did I spray paint "Touchdown Jesus" with graffiti by pointing out it was unbecoming for a great HofF coach to go off the way she did and merit being disinvited?
I try to be extremely even=keeled in my post and even my headlines as a matter of course.
However, I just saw Muffet virtually slandered on a thread by allegedly grown adults on the BY. So, I've been counting to 100 for awhile.
Thus, when I read a first-time poster on McGraw's Bench attaching our namesake and a person that has done so much good in so many areas, well, elbows out as my post coach used to say.
Sorry, I try to be cool under pressure, but I'm also human and very much an ND fan. Why on earth would you choose to introduce yourself with such a volatile subject on Xmas Eve? The reasons have been suggested.
Once again, I'm fine to go over a lot of the points you've raised, but bunching them all together in a shotgun blast is going to get the other side firing salvo's too.
- I've given my opinion on UConn's current players being over-graded for end-of-year awards and/or pre-draft boards.
- We can go over HS/AAU recruiting ratings. As you may know, I dabble a bit in it. (Look at the top of the page).
- NCAA influence on transfers. While no one really knows, don't think ND or Shep got anything that other Nebraska transfers or Chartrice White (Illinois to FSU) got.
Once again, happy holidays.
Dillon, for accuracy sake I introduced myself several weeks ago and no less than Mr. Baba and others welcomed me to "...post away." One even cleverly asked if I was in the portal to transfer here. And if you consider what I posted as slander notwithstanding the praise I accorded MM and ND, let's agree to disagree.
And Happy Holidays to you too.
Post less.
I just saw it.
On the other hand, the near slander I'm referring to is on the thread in the BY from earlier in the week. If that's not clear, I've made it even clearer.
Why was Shepard given "immediate" eligibility? (actually, it wasn't until a few days before the first game. "Immediate" eligibility would have been if they had known before the first practice of the season)
It's simple. Nebraska gave it's blessing in her appeal to the NCAA. That actually goes a long way. Think UT would have done so for Westbrook going to UConn? Doubt it. When the initial school actually speaks in favor of the petition, that carries a lot of weight with the NCAA decision.
Also, although not immediately afterwards, Shepard's transfer was fairly close to coaching change (She did try one year with the new coach) while Westbrook wasn't dealing with a coaching change. Apples and oranges.
...Niele and Coach CO were so ecstatic they neglected to tell Shepard, who did an exhausting workout in the afternoon thinking she'd be watching from the crowd. Surprise.
I remember doing an exhaustive amount of research -- as did a few colleagues from The Boneyard -- on the transfers surrounding the Connie Yow "resignation" and they were all given immediate eligibility and/or allowed to transfer after committing without penalty. As pointed out, Nebraska played a huge role in that.
BTW, as per ND's undue influence, that didn't hold a few weeks earlier when the NCAA rejected a safety's request for immediate eligibility for the football team. He sat a year.
On Christmas Eve, no less.
Your screenname is completely unfamiliar. I don't recall seeing you post here.
So you came out of the woodwork to do this.
And your whole post reads like it's something written by a UConn fan as it takes pains to defend UConn players and Geno
And you are going to play dumb and act like you are a poor little victim who doesn't understand why the mean people are attacking you?
Supposedly not trolling
Plain and simple. He liked Muffet until she became his peer. Then, he was boorish. He's such a BS artist that he couldn't even laugh off the picture of him wearing the ND sweatshirt. "I was cold. I'd wear anything." Class.
You criticize Muffet for her recruiting comments. Care to review what Geno said about Arike? Or even how he talked shit to Arike during a game that drew a response from her and a technical (while the ref, as a shock to no one, let Geno slide).
How about the non-T called when Geno lost his shit in the Final Four and screamed "Are you fucking kidding me?" after Koko Nelson drew a clear charge.
Geno likes to talk shit. Muffet called him on it. I for one am already sick of seeing Paige B articles and pictures of her with her mouth open. ESPN helped UCONN recruit Maya Moore, a generational talent, and Pat S. called UCONN to the carpet about it. Big shock, the NCAA did nothing to its WBB cash cow.
Muffet called out her own employer on this issue. She sure as fuck didn't tarnish her legacy. Disagree with her, fine. Think that the fact that some recruits dipped one spot in rankings disproves her point. Muffet believes not enough attention gets paid to women and women coaches in NCAAW. And Geno is a big reason for that. But Muffet is right that Geno says things to women and about women that female coaches would be berated for.