Irishrock (and cujays in prior posts) have made great points on Creighton, and likewise agree on Villanova. Georgetown is the one I just can't wrap myself around:

-Excellent tradition: likely the best tradition in the conference prior to Villanova's recent run, famous players from Ewing to Mourning to Mutombo to Iverson, and now NBA players like Jeff Green & Otto Porter
-Loaded local recruiting base: Maryland is resurgent, albeit in a whacky conference fit, but DC itself is incredible, the broader DMV has more than enough talent, plus proximity to deep talent pools in NYC and Philly, and a national name that should carry weight
-Great academics
-Great city
-Very wealthy alumni base, although I'm also guessing the atmosphere isn't as much of a home court advantage as other top schools
-Legendary alumnus coach, who was both a HOF calibre player as a big man and developed guards like Kemba Walker

They had even worse luck than us with transfers this year & actually did a solid job given the circumstances, but it does seem like it could easily be a power program if they can just get a good run going that keeps talent home

but I wonder where ND would be if they had stayed in the Big East. I just can't help but think that their basketball program would be better, football would be more independent, and the other sports would do quite well. I think it would be a better fit culturally (9/10 schools in Big East are Catholic schools), academically ND would be a leader along with Georgetown and Villanova, and they would be more competitive. When the ACC is good, they are really really good and if ND is just okay, they'll still get throttled. I would categorize the Big East as one elite (Villanova) with six or seven competitors (like Creighton and Seton Hall this year...both would have been #2 or #3 seeds). so I'd think ND would have better luck in the Big East. Lastly, ND would not just matter, but likely be quite influential. ND doesn't matter to the ACC, just like they wouldn't have mattered to the Big 10. Lastly, the Big East tourney at MSG in New York is a premier conference championship.

Your take on Georgetown is right on. I'll be interested to watch their future as Ewing coaches them, I'd think they'd bring in some more talent and we'll see if he can develop it.

I've thought about that a lot too, and while I think the $$ of a huge conference sadly won out for the powers that be to play it safe on FB and was a far easier sell for them on the easier integration of the Olympic (? - hope I have the term right and certainly not meant to denigrate) sports vs. sticking with our BE brethren + FB independence, I completely agree with you!
-Fit: You said it best, and other than BC and perhaps Duke/Wake, I am not seeing many ACC schools that are similar to us as small, private schools, and with Clemson/FSU/Miami/VT the only ones that are FB-first.
-Football: I think this would have been for the better, especially as we just saw an ND team that was on the fringe of the playoff (& yes, I our UM loss was pathetic and I won't defend that) couldn't even make a NY6 or whatever they call it due to the ACC rules, while a middling UVA team whom we both beat head to head made a quality bowl. I'm a little more bullish on their overall football potential than others as Clemson has now taken the next step, Miami/FSU are always one coach away, and VT/Pitt/UVA/UNC are decent for depth, but I likewise don't see the fit, hate the 5 vs. 3/4 game requirement since we don't get the bowl benefit anyway, and we likely could have picked up many of them as OOC games.
-MBB: you nailed it!
-WBB: I definitely don't know this as well as the good folks on McGraw's bench here, but this seems like more of a slight step down since Duke isn't a power anymore, and perhaps a wash if UConn had stayed in the BE
-Hockey: We are in the Big 10 anyway, so ACC wouldn't matter
-Lacrosse: Looks like a slight edge to the ACC with Syracuse/Duke/UNC, but Georgetown & Denver are very good programs too
-Everything else: I am guessing an edge to the ACC for sports like track, but really not sure

I'm friends with a lot of Georgetown grads - many from families that would often either have family members attend both schools or have the ND FB/Hoya BBall split - and they are confused as well. For the most part, they miss us in the BE too, and I can't imagine Duke or UNC would feel the same if we left the ACC.

It would be playoff or bust.

You have a season where a legitimate bad break in one game drops you down to a tier-three bowl? Try recruiting into that.

Yes, the Orange Bowl setup is screwy, but I'm hoping they'll fix that.

and vice versa. Academic wise, they are included with Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, and Xavier...good company. Sports they are included with the same...it's raised their stature and allows them to recruit at a higher level (they've pulled kids from Australia and Eastern Europe, something they would have had a harder time doing in the Missouri Valley)

I recall a ND fan ripping Creighton earlier in the year when I suggested that ND/Creighton have a home/home as a "shit school, shit program" and it was funny to read. Creighton is an excellent school and is certainly not a shit program...they would have been a #2 seed this year. They are "Omaha's basketball" team and average over 17k fans per game.

The Big East is a great basketball conference (with the exception of DePaul) and has a lot of depth.

ND joined the ACC in 2013-14, the same year Creighton joined the Big East. During that time their records are:

ND 152 wins, 91 losses, winning percentage 62.6, 3 NCAA appearances

CU 151 wins, 86 losses, winning percentage 63.7, 3 NCAA appearances

Certainly it could be argued that during this time the ACC has been a stronger conference top to bottom. However, anyone who claimed either was a "shit program" would have to be ignored.

I think McDermott is one of the best coaches in the Big East and gets a lot out of his players. As noted, CU is Omaha's team and they draw incredibly well in a huge arena.

As for academics, I'm biased with a daughter who is a current Creighton student but it has worked out very well for her with incredible opportunities. Sure, ND is viewed in a different tier but dismissing Creighton as a "shit" school is as stupid as aspirational peer speak.

In the short term, Creighton has a lot of guys back next year and should be a contender in the Big East and perhaps for the NCAA championship.

WTF is the deal with this talk about academic prestige in selecting non-conference opponents? We don't ask that question in scheduling anyone else, why ask it when talking about these Catholic schools?

Georgetown, Villanove, Marquette, Xavier, Dayton, DePaul, Gonzaga ... bring 'em on! One or two a year in home-and-home deals would be blast. Drop the Crossroads classic, if needed, to make it happen.

How about a 4 team Catholic school classic in Chicago each year?

ing at the post. Creighton has been ranked at the top academically for decades. It has generally produced representative athletic teams. I have had several family members graduate from Creighton, including a son who is a professor there. I do not know if the poster being mentioned has/had an axe to grind against the school or was just misinformed.

But I've never thought of Creighton as a top flight academic school. I've always likened it to Xavier or Dayton (which are both excellent schools, but who don't quite have the academic gravitas of ND or Georgetown or even BC).

The ND brand is outstanding. By no means, was I saying it wasn't. the Creighton brand is probably undervalued...their business school is excellent. But it is not at ND's level.


My daughter has been fortunate to get to really participate and by that I mean:
manage part of the endowment (They have a trading floor with 8 Bloomberg terminals)
lead the largest student run business symposium in the country
Go to Hong Kong/China for two weeks
go to NYC this past December for a week on Wall Street
Be taught by CFA's...Creighton has more CFA's on staff than any university in the world
Internships at some really great companies where she was able to earn good $ (she worked part time and made more than I made in my first full time real job) that was the advantage of working at a school in a city and one like Omaha which is very business minded.

I take nothing away from ND...who could? But Creighton gets it and is building/enhancing its brand far better than a SLU/Xavier/Marquette/Loyola. It's in the Midwest so flies under the radar.

being in flyover country hurts from a branding standpoint. I have no doubt it's great institution. It seems like a place I would've enjoyed as an undergraduate.

Also, I have a few friends that reside in Omaha (non-natives) who rave about the place. It seems like the perfect little-big town.

Maybe without as many rich kids from the Main Line.

My daughter is a senior at the school and I really enjoy Omaha...it's an excellent city but just does not have a pro sports team (and I don't think they really care with: CWS, Creighton sports, Nebraska football, Olympic swim trials, Berkshire Hathaway meeting)

I believe poster was from Northeast and wanted more of a NE feel to a home/home. Creighton, Marquette, Xavier...all would be nice non conference games for ND

Hopefully your son is doing well...if he likes Omaha, it'd have to be a great place to be a professor.

Her Creighton experience was great as well. Seems like yesterday that I was polling the BR for information on the school because we had no connection or family history with Creighton at all.

It is a shame that they will not (at least for now) have a traditional graduation ceremony. In the grand scheme I certainly appreciate that this is a "first world" problem but they have all worked very hard to get to this point and the celebration should be one made together. That said, I think Creighton has done a great job communicating with the students, streaming mass from St. John's and having a weekly prayer service via Zoom in which the students can see each other.

Roll Jays.

yep, a bummer considering we both spent likely 6 figures to see our daughters graduate.

1st world problem and all that.

Best of luck to her and to you and your family...stay safe

That has been very successful.

really good NBA players and the Philly /east coast basketball environment, Gonzaga has become the dominant program on the West Coast. Both are really fine schools also. Creighton is a much more realistic aspirational peer in the near term. I am not sure what it would take for this program to ever be ranked in the top 3. But we are far, far away.

strength and conditioning coach which you don't have to share with two other programs who play in the same season. Hockey WBB and MBB all desearve their own strength and conditioning coach. Instead the three have to share one.

Absolutely. Are we serious about these 3 teams? If so, they need to give each one their full support.