The endgame is protecting the health care system.
by grnd (2021-08-02 11:49:59)

In reply to: Re: the increase in Covid and reinstated distancing/masks  posted by mocopdx


If the health care system can handle the burn through, then there is no reason to go back to restrictions; if the health care system is in danger of being overwhelmed, then we need restrictions.


Makes sense to me, with a question
by garbageplate  (2021-08-02 12:37:32)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Is imposing a mask mandate in public places going to have a meaningful effect on cases?

My understanding, and perhaps I'm badly mistaken, is that the virus spreads primarily from close, extended personal contact, as opposed to a chance encounter with someone in, say, the grocery store. Even assuming that cloth masks are effective in blocking particles, it seems like a stretch to assume that a mask mandate will work to alleviate the burden on the health care system.


The delta variant is much more contagious than the
by SUJB9  (2021-08-02 12:43:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

original strains. I'm not saying people are spreading it when walking past each other, but there are a lot of interactions between that and the "close, extended personal contact" that are likely to be the purpose of the masks to try to address.


I'll defer to the experts on that.
by grnd  (2021-08-02 12:41:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But the guidance has been very consistent and nearly unanimous from those experts this whole pandemic: masks and social distancing work. Anecdotally, I haven't had even a cold in the last nearly 18 months, so my own personal experience suggests that masks and distancing are effective at keeping people from getting sick.

Given that the delta variant appears to be even more contagious, I don't know why the guidance would change now if it turns out steps are needed to reduce the strain on the health care system.


I think people forget this
by ravenium  (2021-08-02 12:25:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Locally at least, we seem to have people who want to eliminate all risk. Couple that with self-appointed "experts" who read 3 articles and a high propensity for pseudo-medicine culture, there's a lot of "be afraid" (without context) as a way of life going around.

While they're not nearly as frustrating as the deniers, they add a lot of frustration to the mix.


It's also possible they just disagree with it
by pmcdnd96  (2021-08-02 12:53:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

While strain on the healthcare system is certainly an important factor (and I would argue it's the single most important factor) in considering restrictions, I also think we have a moral obligation to take reasonable steps to help stop the spread where possible. Obviously, the toughest part of that sentence is disagreement over where the line is for "reasonable," but I think there is room for some pepole to think we need to go a step further than making sure we don't overwhelm the healthcare system.

I have very little issue with people who would like to see some restrictions kept in place longer or mask mandates being put back in place because I think their hearts are in the right place.


Within a margin, I agree
by ravenium  (2021-08-02 13:08:07)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I don't feel personally offended if someone wants me to wear a mask again -it's near zero opportunity cost. Even back when they announced the end of restrictions I didn't begrudge anyone who still wanted to wear one, or the fact that people still chose not to go out to events. Doing more than the minimum is different than people not doing the bare minimum. Plus, on an individual level, my parents not wanting to dine out isn't going to sink the restaurant industry, vs the restaurant being forced to 25% capacity.

Where it gets frustrating is when (non-expert) people project this into what other people should be doing. People such as Fauci, CDC, etc are sources of authority and expertise, and if they say to do it, do it. You don't have to like it, of course, but I trust that the thousands of hours and years of research are going to be right more often than any individual.

Some person on reddit who claims authority because they helped people find vaccines 6 months ago can absolutely go their own way for themselves, but can back right off when telling me what is "right".

It's true, they're not actively causing changes in my life, but they're taking a mental health toll. I just had a friend cancel on me for our (outside) bike pedal event because "sick people breathing hard, delta". I respect his decision but I dislike the fear that influenced him (he loves twitter).


Good post
by pmcdnd96  (2021-08-02 13:41:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I agree with everything you wrote.


And in places like Austin, sadly it's on the brink
by knutesteen  (2021-08-02 12:13:21)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

"The Texas Department of State Health Services reported just seven ICU beds on Sunday in Trauma Service Area O that's putting a strain on hospitals."

"Those (7) ICU beds are the total currently available for 11 counties with over 2.3 million residents."


Lagging behind last summer still
by KeoughCharles05  (2021-08-02 16:36:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


And the likely reason is stated right in the article
by Steelhop  (2021-08-02 12:43:54)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

--Adler said hospitals are also seeing a staff shortage which could be causing the lack of ICU beds available. --

So COVID might be a reason but staffing is a reason too. There are ways to fix staffing but hospitals don't like to bring in contract staff unless they absolutely have to do. They will of course do that but it is cheaper to lament the issue in the press.


I think this is correct. *
by Barrister  (2021-08-02 12:02:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


This is what it should be. *
by KeoughCharles05  (2021-08-02 12:01:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Can we require vaccines to enter the hospital?
by mocopdx  (2021-08-02 12:00:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I’m only half-joking. I don’t have any sympathy or compassion for some MAGA idiot who is taking up valuable hospital resources and hurting our medical system because they aren’t vaccinated.


Before just blaming MAGA, it's a racial/ethnic reticense too
by NDoggie78  (2021-08-02 12:15:24)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Almost every conservative I know who believe in MAGA and are not idiots, have been vaccinated.

There are idiots on both sides of the political spectrum


I live in a very progressive county that
by Steelhop  (2021-08-02 13:09:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

went 75% for Biden in November. Here is an article from the local blog post from last week breaking down vaccination rates. And it is sort of interesting that Black and White demographics have a comparable vaccination rate. One of the reason I suspect is that a large percentage of the white population falls into that post-college living along the Orange line and doesn't feel the need or urgency to get vaccinated.


And age. *
by beancounter  (2021-08-02 12:37:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


This is my fault, but this is better fit for the PBR. *
by mocopdx  (2021-08-02 12:20:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Or limit the descriptor of non-vaccinated to just idiots
by NDoggie78  (2021-08-02 12:47:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

That fits no matter their political inclinations, otherwise I agree with your argument with the caveat that others have pointed out - don't want to overwhelm the health system


Agree. Neither side of the aisle has a monopoly on stupid. *
by CAFB4ND  (2021-08-02 13:00:53)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


you are right it should be noted that there are many
by DBCooper  (2021-08-02 12:55:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

on the left who are anti vax as well, the larger percentage still sits on the right side of the political spectrum

See figure 1 of attached link.

Obviously these numbers could be changing with the recent bump up in vaccinations.


What about the non MAGA idiots who haven't been vaccinated *
by Bellcon  (2021-08-02 12:10:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


according to the CDC link a few threads below
by 84david  (2021-08-02 12:15:41)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

36% of african americans are vaxed, and 41% of hispanics.

RFK Jr. is the grand poobah of the anti vax movement.

but lets not get political.


I addressed that in my original post
by mocopdx  (2021-08-02 12:13:06)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But regardless, the FDA needs to get all-ages approval going ASAP.


I agree *
by jt  (2021-08-02 11:56:51)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post