would have provided us the supercalifragilisticexpialidocious opportunity to play another ACC team. Good Lord!

Shouldn't Jack be able to negotiate a deal that would include us for bowl consideration among ACC candidates rather than as an ACC Opponent only? After all, we went 4-0 against them.

Instead of ACC v. SEC/B10/ ND make it ACC or ND v. the field...Rick

Quid pro quo

I remember when they first announced that Orange Bowl tie-in, I had to read it twice because I fully expected it to be exactly how you proposed and it made no goddamned sense that they would build in the potential for rematches of teams we play every 3 years as a feature, not a bug.

I'm not saying that ND deserves it because unless we're ranked #12 we certainly don't, but just looking at it solely from the perspective of the ACC and the Orange Bowl, this would have been the perfect year to bail themselves out of a lopsided and uninteresting matchup by replacing the 2nd place ACC team with ND.

The Rose and Sugar are exclusively locked in to the late afternoon/prime time slots on New Year's Day. This is the same reason why the semi finals aren't played on New Year's Day when it's not the Rose/Sugar rotation.

I don't think you accounted for the automatic bid given to the top non-P5 team. So it's actually 6, 3, and 2 available slots in years 1, 2, and 3.

That is, either we join a conference and compete like everyone else; or, we resolve to return to glory. Glory every year. 12-0, maybe 11-1, victories in big games, tough schedule, etc.

If I were AD, I'd establish a policy: Either we are invited to play in a NY6 bowl because we deserve to be there; or, we don't go.

Take Notre Dame out of the equation and just answer the question.

This year, if Utah and Clemson both make the CFP, then the #10, #11, and #12 teams will not be invited to play in a NY6 bowl. It's going to be the top 9 teams, plus 3-loss Oregon, 4-loss UVA, and probably Memphis.

As for how this impacts ND, if I were AD I'd want to negotiate an arrangement where we get an automatic NY6 invite if we are ranked #12 or higher. Because if there are 6 games, that means 12 teams ("I was told there would be no math"). If you're ranked lower than #12 then you don't deserve it (as is the case this year). If conferences want to get cute and give automatic bids to undeserving teams, then let them take those bids from some other conference team, not ND. If ND is the only team that can't get an automatic bid when we're undeserving, then we shouldn't be locked out in years that basic math indicates that we are deserving.

involved. The 12 teams selected for the NY6 plus the 4 teams in the playoff. If the system were completely merit based, then the fifth through sixteenth teams would be in the NY6.

The top four teams (playoff teams) already take 4 of the 12 NY6 available slots. Thus, the top-12 argument.

I think trying to recruit into it would be suicidal.

Championships are the goal, no doubt, and I would just as soon ND skip no-count bowls matching up four-loss teams. But you can't abandon the middle tier where decent matchups are still possible.

In '71, players voted against a Gator bid v. PSU. '75 team voted against a Cotton bid--Devine's unpopularity w/ Parseghian vets had a lot to do w/ it. There were campus rumors of a minor bowl bid (Astro-Bluebonnet?) declined in '79, but I never heard firm confirmation either way.

Prior to '83 Liberty, ND played in 8 majors and 1 near-major ('76 Gator v. PSU). IIRC, there were a couple of failed team votes before they finally got the seniors to vote to accept that Liberty bid. Half the reason why that bid was pushed was in hopes that it would somehow revive Faust's fortunes.


I'm not sure where I would draw the line--definitely above RU in the Pinstripe, but I'm not sure beyond that. I will recall snickering at the '79 PU game when I saw them bragging about their win in the Peach the preceding year. Such bowls were beneath ND then.

Reality is that ND already lost once in a bowl that Wayne Huizenga invented 2 years after ND's last NC season in an attempt to get the OB to move to his stadium, and ND is likely headed there again this year. That's why the crowing about 3 straight 10 win seasons is offensive.

How about home for the holidays with family and girlfriend?

If I were a player, I'd be enthusiastic about a Sugar Bowl against a SEC team, a Cotton Bowl against Texas. Orange Bowl against someone we hate. But the Pinstripe against BYU? Fuck that.

Playing Texas or Oklahoma?

Someone from the B1G or the SEC?

Are we talking Gator/Citrus/Outback?

Of course I'll watch an ND bowl game and be excited when they win. But the bowl system, to me, is like the Glengarry Glen Ross sales sweepstakes: it's either the El Dorado or some steak knives. And I just can't get excited about even the nicest of steak knives.

Take this year for instance. We have wins against three teams in the 20-25 range. Chances are, if any of them win their bowl game, they will move into the 16-19 range. That's where LSU ended up after we beat them in the 2018 Citrus Bowl. So we tack on another win that really doesn't mean anything in terms of ranking tier.

I don't really even have much use for the "big" NYD bowls, but I clearly understand their historic prestige. So even though I still consider them a similar brand of also-ran exhibitions, I'd value a setup where we had more access to them at the cost of having less access to fall backs (even at the respectable mid-tier level you describe).

with our joining the ACC?

rid of the faux sponsor aka fauxchosponsorus.

Now we're open for business.

C'mon over Irish we can set up an easy win for Brain the Wonder Coach with someone like Nevada or Hawaii.

Btw...Randal Graves post was deleted. I'm disappointed

It was on par with 2Shedsjackson and RagingBull.

It was moved to the Wailing Wall where it belonged.

It was heartfelt.

If not for the ACC tie-in with the Camping World, we'd be looking at an even bleaker position right now. Like, Cheez-It Bowl bleak.

Auto bids in lieu of higher ranked at-large selections

2014 - #12 GaTech (Orange)
2015 - #12 Ole Miss and #16 Oklahoma St (Sugar)
2016 - #14 Auburn (Sugar)
2018 - #15 Texas (Sugar)
2019 - Unranked UVA (Orange)

Half these teams had four losses.

Has the Orange ever hosted a non-top 25 team that didn't win their conference?

Have they ever hosted a non-top 25 team?

when Virginia beats Clemson and all hell breaks loose.

a few weeks ago. Wake Forest actually stood a much better chance of making the Orange Bowl by losing to Clemson than by beating them.

At the time, Wake Forest was 7-2 with both losses coming in conference games. If WF had beaten Clemson, then Clemson would presumably be knocked out of the CFP race but still would have won their division with only 1 loss, and would then go to the Orange Bowl after beating UVA in the title game. Assuming a Utah win over Oregon in tomorrow night's game, WF would probably need to be ranked #10 to make a NY6 bowl, which is doubtful.

But by losing that game, all WF had to do was win their last 2 games to finish 9-3, which would have probably landed them in the top 25, ahead of the eventual ACC title game loser who will probably finish unranked at 9-4. As it turned out, Wake lost their final game in overtime to Syracuse. But had they finished 9-3, I think they would have gone to the Orange Bowl.

It needs to say ACC winner or if the ACC winner is in CFP it's the highest ranked ACC team including NOtre Dame.

Or we can walk away from 5 games a year with those assholes.

Seems generous - that’s where I’d put the spread of we we’re playing Clemson

LSU and Ohio State need to lose. It's not impossible to envision a scenario of (1) undefeated Clemson, (2) SEC champ UGA, (3) 1-loss Ohio State, (4) 1-loss LSU, (5 and 6) Pac 12 Champ Utah and Big 12 Champ OU/Baylor. That would probably be the correct ranking for those 6 teams, but it'd be a nightmare scenario having two out of the top four getting in after losing their conference championship games.

even if they lose.