In 130+ years of college football, Wisconsin has literally
by Tex Francisco (2021-07-30 10:17:36)

In reply to: I think you are referring to Michigan, not Wisconsin *  posted by fontoknow


never entered New Year's day being relevant to the national championship discussion, yet the numerous Wisconsin alumni I work with are quite proud, and in some cases even cocky, about their program because the current system leads them to believe they have an elite program. That aint happening in a 40-50 team super league.

I know the point of your post was to rip on Michigan, which is always a worthwhile endeavor. I just happen to work with a ton of Wiscy grads, so I couldn't let it pass.


I think the national championship focus has hurt the equity
by BuckeyeJohn05  (2021-07-30 10:45:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And ultimately the sport.

It seems the sport was in a better place when you just played your schedule and let the AP decide who was the mythical national champion. It wasn't perfect, but it was interesting and it allowed tier 2 programs to sneak in a National Championship .

There was always a bit an arms competition , but that arms race exploded in the past decade--in large part with trying to keep up with the SEC. The salary structure/budgets from 2010 to 2021 aren't even close. For instance, OSU's coordinators were making 300k in 2010 vs 2+MM with a much larger coaching staff in 2021?


Nonsense. Big two and little eight ring any bells?
by cmhirish  (2021-07-31 10:45:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Correlation is not causation.


That was mostly a 70s thing
by BuckeyeJohn05  (2021-07-31 14:17:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Plenty of the "little 8" teams made the Rose Bowl.

Iowa, Illinois , Wisconsin, Northwestern Michigan State all made it to the Rose Bowl in 80s and 90. They were national championship contenders for a for a brief moment. Such teams have less chance in this playoff system. That is not just correlation. They are not set up to compete with the heavy weights through a playoff

The 60s were even more balanced competitively.

Michigan was able to win a National championship too. Not likely to happen now.

Learn some history.


1000% agree with you
by sullivan79  (2021-07-30 11:24:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Who really gives a crap if there is an "undisputed" national champion? It made for more discussion and interest in the entire system. The bowls were more fun, New Years Day was more fun, the other bowls were more interesting. Hell, I don't even watch any bowl games anymore unless ND is playing. Give me the days when there was a split national champion. I have despised the BCS and playoff that added the final games to the mix.

* In the 20 years before the BCS started there were only 4 years when there was a so-called split national champion.


Agreed.
by Tex Francisco  (2021-07-30 11:17:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

When TV coverage started to explode in the early 2000s, I thought it might be a really good thing for ND. I thought we were entering a world where due to almost infinite TV exposure the Ohio States of the world would become indistinguishable from the Iowas, which would make Notre Dame standout more as being a truly unique option for players. Instead, due to the NC focus, it's gone the other way. We have 3 super teams and then a big drop off to everyone else.


the "arms" and facilities race didn't just heat up in the
by jt  (2021-07-30 11:12:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

last 10 years, as you state, it started heating up in the late 90s and accelerated in the early 00's and is a train off the tracks now.


The NC versus bowls didn't have anything to do with it
by NDAtty  (2021-07-30 11:37:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

other than the additional money of the playoffs. Schools and conferences would have still sought as much money as possible. Coaches would still have sought higher salaries. Players would still be entitled to and look to maximize NIL.

What party wouldn't have done these things if there was an AP national champion rather than playoff? Schools wouldn't have tried to maximize TV deals? Assistant coaches wouldn't jump at million-dollar offers?


The Knight Commision addressed these issues
by ACross  (2021-07-30 20:22:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And stressed the primacy of academic mission and amateurism.


I'm not sure why this response is directed at me *
by jt  (2021-07-30 12:27:24)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Didn't mean to direct at you. Just adding to the sub-thread *
by NDAtty  (2021-07-31 10:48:01)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


no big deal
by jt  (2021-07-31 12:00:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I was just wondering where it came from.


It certainly contributed. Alabama drives the market
by BuckeyeJohn05  (2021-07-30 11:59:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Which in turn caused the handful of elites to ramp up their operations and expenditures creating a lot of inequity.

Prior to BCS/playoffs, Alabama was never a measuring stick. You were mainly focused on your schedule , rival and conference bowl opponent . This National Championship or bust mentality wasn't as prevalent.


Correlation is not causation.
by cmhirish  (2021-07-31 10:40:35)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Saban just happened to arrive during the BCS/playoff era; he's demonstrated he would have been dominant in most any era.

And inequity has always existed. Big two and little eight ring any bells?

The ramp up of operations and especially expenditures is enabled by the the selling of television rights; the selling of year-round, 24-hour network subscriptions; ever escalating ticket prices; incremental, mandatory fees that are required to obtain the rights to purchase tickets, such as "contribution models" and "building funds"; and by boosters with deep pockets.

The arms race was not enabled by the playoffs, national championship, or BCS. The arms race is fueled by those gladly willing to part with their money. There's one born every minute.


Oregon *
by GolfJunkie17  (2021-07-31 07:11:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Maybe, but I think the huge media rights money
by NDAtty  (2021-07-30 13:00:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

for sports is really the driving force.

The playoff was instituted because there was money to be made, time slots to fill and networks in need of programming. The playoffs were a consequence of TV money and the forces at play today rather than a cause. Just another step down that road.

BCS and CFP were a continuation away from where the sport was, but I don't think it likely they would have been held off much longer even if delayed.

Of course, I don't know.


TV money now dwarfs everything else.
by Tex Francisco  (2021-07-30 13:35:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

This is one reason why, for example, Nebraska holds way less sway than they did 30-40 years ago. Very few programs can sell out a bowl game the way Nebraska can. In the 80s and even the 90s that meant something. In today's world it's trivial compared to TV money, and Nebraska is only a middle of the road TV draw.


Michigan does exactly what you accused IA and WI of
by fontoknow  (2021-07-30 10:28:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

they have just been doing it for longer.


They do have some titles from before the forward pass
by daviehamsufferer97  (2021-07-30 10:32:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

was legal. Those are KIND OF like football championships.


And Michigan has been at least quasi relevant
by Tex Francisco  (2021-07-30 10:41:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

in the discussion a few times, even if likely undeserving such as in 97. Didn't Schembechler enter New Year's day with a chance a few times? Looking at Wikipedia, it appears they were number 2 going into the Rose Bowl in 1976 and had they won and Pitt lost, they would have won the title. Wisconsin has nothing of the kind in their history.


Don't Worry - Michigan will post a lot of Ls in a 25 team
by NDAtty  (2021-07-30 10:21:01)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

super-team structure.


As a Marquette Alum, I endorse this post, wholeheartedly! *
by Irish Warrior  (2021-07-30 10:19:22)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post