In reply to: It has been a couple decades... posted by Wass
of putting a class together. One year too many offensive linemen. Next year too many running backs.
Being a great recruiting for Notre Dame in the 1970's and early 80's still took work, but not as much as it does now.
If Marcus Freeman brings in back-to-back top-ranked recruiting classes, I'd be prepared to label him a better recruiter than Vinny Cerrato.
combines for HS kids in 1970's. Maybe one national guy (Terranova) compiling ratings. Lots of hearsay and personal recommendations from coaches you knew in HS areas. Lots of black and white tape, too.
Our funnel into Catholic leagues and ability to take so many players had to be a huge thing. And some colleges were very late in accepting black players whereas ND was not.
Must be so much more scientific and sophisticated now to be a great recruiter.
A few probably still did it old school recently by seeing things others did not and coaching guys up (thinking of a Dantonio) but nowadays you can't be a top 5 school without getting consensus 4 and 5 stars. And in reality the percentage hit rate for NFL seems pretty high.
That is the difference with Marcus Freeman. He has coaching experience at several colleges before his arrival at ND. Big difference in understanding how the game works at the college level vs only having experience at the high school level.
Short prep with the job change, missing best player on O and D, way too many variables.
The fact that we blew a 21-point lead, standing alone, proves that.
With that said, it would have been a bigger shock had he outcoached Gundy.
Certainly head-and-shoulders above any bowl performance I've seen since Lou left.
Mike Elston couldn't keep up with their tempo and get the right guys on the field, and Tommy Rees made a mistake in going away from the run with Williams out. Maybe Freeman should have reacted more strongly to both those things. Maybe he realized it was a non-playoff bowl and better to see what he had with those assistants. Maybe it was both. Maybe neither.
Regardless, it annoys me that we finally get what we want -- a coach who isn't a jagoff who is recruiting a fantastic class already -- and there's still bitching and moaning.
I think that the bigger problems still remain on campus (or in Indianapolis, I suppose).
I am trying to look at things as objectively as possible. I also realize that there are going to be growing pains with any head coach who has no previous college head coaching experience. And I would never write off any coach for a single loss to a Top 10 team.
I like Freeman and want him to succeed. In fact, I want any ND head coach to succeed, as the coach's success necessarily means success for ND, at least in the short term. I'm just not prepared to label him a success (or failure, for that matter) just yet.
Right things.
But he is not a proven tactician, strategist, or game planner from anuts and bolts football acumen perspective.
And he hired a few clunkers as assistants.
It is ok to be skeptical. And still be supportive of the guy.
Assuming you attended.
As far as Freeman and the bowl game, my take was exactly the same as your second paragraph. Seemed to me he was overly deferential to both coordinators in a game where the outcome was of little consequence. What mattered was starting hot to show that we were a legitimate top 6 team which we did.
The interview is up on Zorich's YouTube page.
bitching and moaning. I generally see optimism due to Freeman's recruiting and embrace of the university's complexities. But at the same time, some of us are very wary because he has no experience running a football program or with gameday strategy. History has not been kind to first time head coaches at Notre Dame since some guy named Rockne.
to dismiss the long held belief that ND is a very tough job for a first time head coach to take on. We've all heard Ara talk about how much he needed his prior head coaching experience before getting to ND, given that the job is even more complex now I would argue his statement is even more accurate. That's not to say Freeman can't overcome it and recruiting the hell out of it is a great start.
didn’t show a lot of engagement with anyone especially as we were collapsing. I guess you could argue that it is unfair to judge him based on that but for me he looked like someone trying to figure out what to do instead of knowing and acting on it. At minimum it reinforced concerns about the readiness of a young first time head coach. As you know our AD has declared that our program is in superb shape so with that in mind we should expect whoever he selected to step into such a great position to be well prepared to succeed immediately.
I think a lot of people here have preconceived notions about what they see based on PTSD from the last 25+ years, and they need to get over it.
he loved himself more than anything. He should have walked away on his own years before he ran out of contract.
is that Freeman's excellent recruiting ability and appreciation for the university will not be sufficient to make him a good head coach. It certainly wasn't for Faust. A first time head coach is a big risk at ND and is borderline incompetence on the part of the AD.
Faust went to Father Hesburgh and cried like a baby in his office, until Hesburgh finally relented and told Gerry he'd get two more years.
Based on this, I agree with you.
eight before you understand the job.
his sincerity. My biggest initial concern was that he had a larger coaching staff at Moeller than that permitted by the NCAA at ND, thus I wondered if he would be in over his head at ND. Yes, I literally helped carry him off the field when we beat LSU at home resulting in that 1981 premature #1 ranking, but we shortly came back to Earth the next week and over his 5 year reign. Nice guy, over his head in major college football.
It was his dream job and he was reluctant to say goodbye amd let go.
I lived through his final 2 years and that included some horrific losses. But lnever turned on him because he was in essence a good and nice man.
that doesn't make 89swine's statement legitimate. He wasn't saying that he was a nice guy, he was saying that he loved Our Lady's University and her lads more than any other coach in Our Lady's University's history.
last couple years.
One who never played a snap at ND because he was badly injured by Faust improper weight lifting program. The other that was a 3 year starter and 4 year letter winner. Then many of the 1985 recruits - who as you know I had to talk many into staying at ND before Faust resigned. He was a nice person at his core but JT is right. A lot of the team was struggling to stick with him through his final year. They nearly all knew he was incapable of doing the job. They wanted to win - but also wanted Faust gone.
Faust did give me tickets to the Penn state away game disaster that year - so I have that to thank him for. I did get to see how other colleges react to seeing a football player in person that trip. My 6’6” DL roommate was with me. To say there were 100’s of women that absolutely flooded the lobby of a dorm we were in when he confirmed he was on the ND team is possibly an under count. I still have high school friends that talk about meeting him. 100 of 118 people I graduated with went to Penn state. At most one of them saw one PSU player for maybe seconds their entire 4 years. They spent 2 full days with my roommate.
once Lou arrived. My brother still recalls my call right after the infamous first team meeting with Lou, assuring him that we were going to win the National Championship and soon.
My roommates and I road-tripped to PSU for that game. We stayed in a dorm with one of my friends from high school and I volunteered to work that game. We were standing in inches of water in that monsoon and I remember burning my fingers holding footballs in front of those jet heaters, trying in vain to get the footballs to be less waterlogged. They’d be saturated again within seconds after going back in. 36-6. That night, after the team left, my roommates and I hit the town in State College along with a bunch of my friends from home who came out from NJ for the game. I probably never drank more in my life. I’ll leave it at that. The ride back to ND was not pleasant.
One of the better parts of that trip was when Milt Jackson came to the team hotel and surprised the team at a meeting there. He had been away from the team for a while and the outpouring of love for him by the team was a sight to behold. He was one of the best guys I met at ND. May he Rest In Peace.
Next time you see those two roommates, thank them for me for going easy on me in Grace section basketball. I was tasked with going up against them at center and they went easy on me. Both real good guys as you know.
PS. This Blue Gold weekend I had the chance to hang out with a couple players who lived in my section my freshman year. They were both 5th years then so true experts on the Faust years. One played at a rival high school to Moeller back in Gerry’s days there. Even in our old age, we kept the party going and managed to close down one of the local watering holes, reliving Grace Hall memories from 84-85 living in the infamous section 6D, also home of UR’s brother that year as well. I didn’t have to play center back then as we had a regular student who was 6-7, 300 pounds. Good times.
To NFL scouts because they asked him to resign. True. I have no great regard for Gerry
It's been a long time but I do recall hearing from some people close to the program that team was completely dysfunctional towards the end of his tenure and some players had bad experiences with him, one story in particular I recall.
But Lou showed up and fixed everything!
That doesn't make him particularly unique, but it certainly doesn't earn him a (Madonna) blue ribbon in the "best example of sacrificial love" category.
I've heard too many stories from too many people over too many years to argue that he isn't a fundamentally good man.
But the only way I can reconcile too many stories of him throwing players and assistants under the bus with those stories of acts of charity and decency is that the job broke him -- temporarily, at least.
but I would also not listen long to someone who told me that "no coach loved Notre Dame more" as 89swine says above.
First of all, how would we prove that? Is there a love thee Notre Dame litmus test? Secondly, I would argue that there were certainly coaches, especially in the early years when ND wasn't necessarily the prestigious school that it is now who certainly loved the place a great deal; Frank Leahy is an example that comes to mind, and he had the benefit of actually being a really good coach (and an excellent recruiter as well).
to rank Gerry above Lou, Ara, Leahy, Rockne or others in that department either.
Getting back to the original post, I think Freeman has very little in common with Faust, and I think a bunch of guys who played for Faust and Holtz would say, and have said, the same thing.
ACross... goes to show all of us can find common ground somewhere. : )