We rented a house with one on vacation, and had dinner catered a couple of nights (instead of taking the tribe out) and it was cool that the caterers could prepare and store a lot of the food in another room. That pantry had an additional sink, dish washer, microwave, coffee (espresso) maker and oven. Of course, I don’t have room for a butler’s pantry in my house, but if I did it would be high in my list.
His personal predilections about kitchen design appear to have been revealed to him by God, making other people's habits, opinions, views on the good life, not to mention the culinary traditions of all civilizations outside of the Cross house, so much dross.
I feel like that puts us in a good position to judge the utility. We use it for two reasons: fill up the big pot on the weekend when I make fresh pasta and fill up the watering can for our indoor plants. The latter was an unexpected bonus: water comes out of the pot filler like horse taking a piss, way faster than any other faucet in the house.
I see no reason why it would be necessary, but if it's cheap and you think you'll use it I don't see why you wouldn't put it in and likely recoup the cost in when you sell your house complete with a "chef's kitchen". (Side note: I hate how bullshit like that actually works, but it given a few of my friends' recent purchases it clearly does...)
Fill that boiling pot right on the stove.
Other than that, I do agree moving pots of water is truly the sphere of your domestic staff.
The humane householder would put in the pot filler for the sake of his cook.
If you're one of Allu's friends, I guess it isn't. Maybe they don't cook.
But if you cook, and especially if you cook things in pots of water (pasta, steamed vegetables, etc.) it's hard to beat being able to fill the pot on the stove.
It's not the kind of thing that would make or break a kitchen for me, but if I had the place torn apart already, the added marginal cost of installing one would probably be worth it.
You are OCD when it comes to cooking.
I gut rehabbed a kitchen and thought through all these things and had no use for a faucet above my stove. How often do I cook pasta? For myself? Pretty close to never. I stick to proteins, I really don't give a shit about vegetables and when I do cook and eat them I either buy them from the gourmet carry out or roast them. Now, my kids love noodles. And I do cook them fresh Italian noodles, because it's a better product and it cooks faster. I can handle the 5 foot walk with a pot of water.
Now, my sink is pretty close to my range. I considered things like that.
Which is also why I eschewed a "prep sink" in my kitchen island. That place is for congregating and entertaining. It's 12 feet long. It's much better looking without a hole in it and a faucet sticking up. Seating on 3 sides.
So, my advice is to shitcan the faucet and the stupid prep sink but instead to design the kitchen so everything is efficient - sink, stove, range, refrigerator, dishes, garbage, ovens. Our designer was an engineer by education and that ruled.
Which is perfectly fine. I am a little puzzled at the emotions people seem to have over this topic.
But the fact that you didn't want or need one doesn't mean that it would not be convenient to have a pot filler. Is not having one the end of the world? No, of course not. But it is indisputably more convenient to fill a pot in place than having to move it, even if the convenience is only marginal. So my assessment that it is handy is, even if not controlling, certainly not "a load of crap."
All you've done is take your assessment of the costs and benefits, measured in light of your own cooking habits, and dressed it up as an objective fact stated with unnecessary acerbity.
I agree that a prep sink taking up space in an island is probably more of a nuisance than anything else.
And it's pronounced "urred" not "aired."
A prep sink is a great feature, as it allows you two completely separate cooking areas if the kitchen is set up properly.
It also allows you to separate the cleanup area from the cooking area, and begin cleanup while someone else is still doing prep/cooking.
Finally, it lets you make yourself breakfast even if you didn't get around to doing the dishes from last night's party.
There are plenty of very pretty bar sinks and faucets out there than can function as a prep sink. And the island can function as a place for gathering/entertaining while cooking with a prep sink.
But to ACross's point above, we're setting it to be the "command center"/gathering spot in the kitchen
As the farmhouse sink is going to be directly opposite the range top, my wife decided we can live without it
Sinks collect shit like dishes and glasses and stuff.
Faucets protrude.
Efficiency and purpose prevail.
And nobody needs two cooks in the kitchen.
Prep sinks certainly serve a function/purpose.
Dishes go in the cleanup sink, that is its function/purpose.
It's fine if you don't, but lots of people cook with their spouses.
In reality, I don't really care if you (or a client) would prefer not to have a prep sink. In the end, it's your (or their) kitchen). I'll simply point out the advantages and show a design the minimizes their concerns to give the best of both worlds. If they reject the idea, that's part of the job.
But I agree with Across on this one. Having an uninterrupted island surface has been a godsend for us. When we entertain, everyone is standing around the island in the kitchen. Having a sink and faucet would be very disruptive.
Plus, if you clean as you go, then the mess doesn't pile up when you are cooking.
If the island is deep enough to have seating there is plenty of room for plates and glasses behind the sink. And one's line of sight is well above the height of a faucet.
I guess I'm not understanding the limitation. I think the advantages would more than outweigh it.
P.S. A prep sink doesn't necessarily have to go in the island, either.
Our kitchen island tends to be the center of social functions, especially New Year's Eve. Since we are in California, things aren't as spread out as I would like. We have a decent size island (about 42" x 72") but I would not want it disrupted by a prep sink.
Unfortunately, I don't really have another place I could put one. not sure I would want one if I could. The non-island option seems reasonable if it could be co-located with the main sink, but I really like an island that is not used as a cook station, be it prep or cooktop. I like being able to congregate on all sides.
Same reason too many people get other superfluous things in a kitchen. Now, we are a little different in that we dont microvwave or freeze food so we chose a 36 inch fridge with a bottom drwaer freezer which is plenty for us. Our microwave is a small one that is used solely for heating up kids bottles and food. We don't bulk grocery shop so we didnt need a stupid walk in pantry. That's what the grocery store a mile away is for. So we go there 2 or 3 times a week and buy fresh food that doesnt suck. Unlike what you get at Costco
I highly recommend the fridge i chose. Liebherr.
Buy one house with it and one house without it.
the butler transport the filled pot in from the suburbs. Seems suboptimal.
During our remodel we installed at hot water recirculating pump at our water heater, which gives instant hot water to every faucet/shower/tub in the house. The house was built in the 60s and during winter it used to take a good 60 seconds for the master shower to warm up - now it takes five seconds. It’s phenomenal, and really cheap to install. Link below.
Pot filler is just for show, really.
If you’re redoing the master bath, you should consider a heated floor - it’s another investment where the enjoyment absolutely justifies the cost.
Why is this not a code requirement in new California construction where water is so scare? It takes at least 45 seconds to get hot water in my master bath in the summer. Longer in the winter.
Especially in warm climates.
You save water, but you pay to heat the water throughout your home's non-insulated pipes. So going to use more energy. Not sure how the breakdown is overall but (a) you are using more energy to reheat that water constantly and (b) in a warm climate you are using more energy to cool your house more from that heat given off.
for a shower to warm up is well worth the electricity/gas used to heat the water. In drought-prone climates like CA the recirculation pump is a wonderful sustainable solution.
"well worth" seems rather arbitrary. What's a gallon of water cost vs. units of gas or electricity?
I care about conserving water.
If you have a 2 story house, generally you can accomplish this with just a return like, and gravity will do the work. Although some codes now require the pump.
The heated mats in the bathroom are indispensable once you have them.
I have never heard of this hot water recirculating system before, but I am interested. We live in a two story colonial with a basement. The water heater is on the far wall opposite of our master bathroom.
The hot water at the kitchen sink takes a good minute to get hot and the hot water at our shower/tub in the master bath probably takes a good two minutes.
I'm not really concerned about wasting water (we have a well), but it is annoying to go to use the hot water and having to wait, especially at the kitchen sink.
Our water heater is electric, so am concerned if this would make our energy bill sky rocket -- though we would probably lower the usage of our well pump if we don't run the shower for an extra 3 minutes before every time we use it (and I know well pumps use a lot of juice).
Any thoughts?
You install the pump at the water heater, and small valve at the hot/cold supplies of your furthest plumbing fixture (which in your case sounds like the master bath sink.)
When the valve at the master sink senses that the hot water in the pipes has cooled, it will pull the warm water back to the water heater via the cold water supply, thereby re-filling the hot water pipes with hot supply from the heater. (Sorry, this is confusing to write out.)
The upside is that you will always have hot water house-wide. The downside is at the master sink, where the cold water will sometimes be lukewarm. We decided that this is a small price to pay for having quick hot water at all times.
Edit to add: The pump has a timer, so it doesn't have to operate 24/7. If you use it for peak times (mornings and evenings) it will use less juice from water heater.
....hot water supply systems are usually built as a straight line run from the water heater to the nearest fixture to the next fixture.....so on and so forth, until they end at the furthest fixture from the water heater.
If you make the system a loop by installing a small (usually 1/4" or 3/8") line back from the furthest fixture to the water heater, you can keep a small amount of hot water constantly circulating through the line.
There are two methods for this. The gravity method works if you have a significant elevation change between the water heater and the last fixture (for exxample, WH is in basement, last fixture is on the 2nd floor). Because hot water is less dense than cold water, gravity will keep a constant flow of hot water rising in the line, and the colder water will travel back down through the re-circ loop.
If there isn't enough elevation change for gravity to do the work, a mechanical pump can be installed to do the same thing, with a thermostatic valve that activates the pump when the water at the last fixture cools.
As voidoid noted, this doesn't waste water, it wastes a small amount of energy heating water that may not be used at that time. But becasue the recirc line is ususally small, there is very little water being reheated.
would be a lot less invasive/expensive to install than a line though, right?
Our master bath is on the second floor, farthest from the water heater (which is in the basement), so plenty of gravity drop. But seems like running a line from there back to the heater would be quite the ordeal.
Building a home from scratch, you would do the loop. When we remodeled, the pump was like $300 installed versus running the new loop line under slab, through walls, etc.
The valve doesn't dump water down the drain, it recirculates it through the recirc line.
Dumping it would waste water and energy, and is likely not allowed.
It's hard to say exacty how tough it would be to run the line. If you have a plumbing stack to follow, you might only need to cut a couple of holes in the walls in a couple of places to drill a new hole through the sill plates/heads. You can fish a 1/4" or 3/8" copper line through a stud cavity pretty easily.
We installed it at my house, works great, no loop required.
The original pump linked, the Watts 500800, says installation simply requires installing in the pump in the line and sensor by the furthest fixture.
I wholeheartedly recommend it. During the dead of winter it is AMAZING to have immediate hot water.
even existed.
but am concerned about using a ton of electricity for my water heater. Sounds like an interesting system though...I'm intrigued.
Another thing is venting your hood to the outside of the house.
You and my 2 year old.
Jt hasn't had a carb in 10 years.
It's just noodles. Peasant food.
Christ, every friend of mine that lives in WI owns one.
...If you cook practically every night and boil a lot of water, you might save two or three hundred trips carrying a cold pot of water from sink to stove each year. If you have a large country kitchen where the distance from sink to stove is far enough, I could see some marginal justification for it.
I'll have to look at that.
Hopefully this thing will be done in time for, oh, I dunno, the Stanford game?
I constantly wish we had one.
We have a large island with a secondary sink installed. I put the instant hot water dispenser there and we use it constantly. We have never had a leak or any incident whatsoever in 8 years. The only time is was a problem was when my young nephew tried to use it to wash his hands...that was not good.
You still have to carry the full heated pot off of the stove, which seems harder than carrying a cold pot to the stove.
Now, a prep sink somewhere near the stove I can get behind (and do recommend).
If you're doing pasta, you can fill the pot on one side, and keep the sink free for other prep work.
My wife is the cook, trying to make her happy here. Cost is negligible given that everything is torn up at the moment and the water line is right there.
I think the prep sink can be spared for that 30-45 seconds, but that’s just me.
And yes, you still have to empty the boiling pot at a sink, even if you filled it on the stove.
If she wants it though and it’s a negligible cost, then go for it.
I don't have one. And I've never missed it. But maybe if I was tearing my kitchen apart anyway, and the extra cost was not significant, I'd add it.
I saw one for the first time a few years ago. The guys across the street bought, fixed up, and flipped the house. During the Open House I saw a faucet over the stove and learned about pot fillers. I guess it is for those 'high end' kitchens.
You may be able to fill the pot while it sits on the stove, but you can’t empty it there. I don’t really see the point - you’re still moving a giant pot of (now quite hot) water.
I just had to google it.
Is it seriously that much labor filling a pot all the way over there at the sink...and having to trudge your way all the way back across the kitchen with that enormous and heavy burden of a water-filled pot?
Accidentally turned on, and ruined it.
can get messy, but fun.
Sadly too many carbs, I’m a year into keto diet.
...there is no actual Aunt Jemima needed for the Aunt Jemima treatment. But you wacky kids keep doing it your way.
with that ice cream scooper?
Wish the clip included the scene when they come our of the trunk in the bedroom. But glad the clip excludes Harold Ramis
...interesting.
Has never used it and probably don’t know how to use it. Seems like some white nonsense to me.
Discussing kale and chick peas, farmers markets, electric vehicles, adding a bidet to your powder room. Infinity scarves, Vineyard Vines, camping.
It’s a bit dated now, but damn did it ever nail the mark.
$100 yoga pants, all things North Face, bento box lunch boxes for your toddler, ginormous SUV for carting around your 1 child...
Because white people here have given up on them in favor of riding boots.
Owning a Suburu, making your own baby food, chevron rugs, owning a French press, giving out uncalled for financial advice, bragging about your grill.
... white person you wouldn't aim a the French Press, but rather one of those coffee machines that makes individual cups with small, disposable single canisters of ground coffee. Expensive, packaging waste, and little effort.
I suspect things are different in your neighborhood, but Subaru (particularly Forester and Outback) remains one of the best cars for Seattle. Good in the snow, decent gas consumption, incredible durability, and smaller and less flashy than a lot of its competitors. I don't own one, but I'm thinking about it.
That comment was self-deprecating. Rightly so as she is quite white.
I have two French presses - one is a plastic GSI for camping.
Do you drive an Outback too?
You're trying to get me to confess I don't drive an MDX.
Queen Jadis thinks Maine is white.
because of the war and such.
How many people’s kitchens have you been in to know whether or not they have a pot filler faucet? Is this like an n of 4? And of that presumably small subgroup how many can you say don’t know how to turn a handle and have water come out?
Anyway, the correct answer is to get an instant hot water tap at the the sink. Quooker brand among others.
It breaks constantly and the water tastes weird.
It was great for making French press coffee.
And it's great.
Only way someone tastes boiling water is via tea or instant coffee. I challenge you to do a blind taste test with tea. Theoretically, water for tea is best when heated to just below the boiling point but obviously just about everyone on earth uses an electric kettle or stove top kettle after it boils.
Mine has never broken but that’s a n of 1.
And to clarify, it’s not an instant hot water heater for the house (showers, etc) that replaces the electric or gas hot water heater. It’s just the kitchen sink.
than tea made with water boiled in a kettle then allowed to come off-boil.
I appreciate the squid-splaining about how to make tea.
I don't really need you to give specifics, but think about it. Will that addition fit with the layout and design? If you have less than a 6 burner cook top then don't do it, it'll look dumb.