One of the partners in my firm recently re-located to Arizona, and my now my wife wants to explore our options. I practice federal law and most of our clients aren't local anyway, so working remote is fairly common at my firm (and in my niche of law generally). My wife wants to move to Florida, and she has zoomed in on the greater Orlando area specifically. I generally find most of Florida to be fairly low rent, and this seems to hold true across the entire income spectrum. I tell her that I don't want to live with and raise my children among these people, but she assures me that these guys only represent 98% of Floridians and that we can find an enclave of the other 2%.
Dear Backroom, please make the case against moving to Orlando. Also, if one were to make such a move, what are the best areas to live? Good public schools is probably the most important criteria. I would work from home, so traffic and distance to the city center are of fairly little importance. Does anyone have any thoughts on Windermere?
Live on a coast. St. Augstine area is lovely. Naples, Ft. Myers and Sarasota are also very nice. Ft. Lauderdale and Palm Beach are full of northeastern transplants.
Treasure Coast is nice.
The gulf coast (Tampa aside) is nice and is full of midwestern transplants.
Treasure coast and panhandle are nice as well.
Orlando is a swampy shithole.
the freedom to live anywhere in the US, and choosing Orlando. Hot, tourists, swamp, hot.
Lou Holtz is a resident, although I have yet to run into him at the local Publix. mobscene provided a good overview. There’s much to like about the 32827.
He was thinking the same, but was also queasy, and for the same reasons. I confirmed his fears: Florida is spiritually and psychically toxic. I've lived there, in one of the nicest parts, where one finds the two percent to whom you refer, and the "Florida Man" craziness is there, too. I wouldn't live there again, and like you, I can pretty much choose where I want to be at this point.
More generally, the ultimate argument against moving to Orlando (or Reno, St. Louis, Biloxi, and other mildly emetic places like that) is simple: Texas exists. Better weather, better culture, better economy, better food, better schools, better attitude, unlike Florida most of the guns are in the hands of good guys ... generally speaking, there is no reason to choose Orlando or any other place in Florida over just about any decent place in Texas.
Texas blows.
So don't buy. Rent.
"By one estimate, from Seattle-based Zillow Research, based on current projections by NOAA of ocean levels rising six feet by 2100, almost 2 million properties -- or roughly 2% of US housing stock, worth $882 billion -- could be under water in a little over 75 years. Close to half of that loss in value would occur in Florida alone, where 1 in 8 properties, worth a total of $400 billion, are threatened."
football field a day or some such thing.
present course.
The Atchafalaya should be the current exit point of the river, but the US Army CoE has prevented that.
Financially speaking, the inland port of New Orleans has far too much capital invested to let the river run its course, so to speak, and so the status quo is heavily fought for.
I moved 30 times in the first 30 years of my life. I've lived here for 24 years. It's pretty close to paradise in my view. The schools are top rated in FL.
And while things may have changed since I left about 20 years ago, Nease High School was not anything special. The good public schools were the magnets in Jacksonville, Stanton and Paxon.
And personally, I would not want to raise my kids amongst the Tim Tebow, evangelical crowd in Florida.
I’d follow mitquinn’s suggestions.
Our Lady Star of the Sea is a large and thriving catholic parish in PVB.
Ponte Vedra High School has been around for a decade now and is one of the top public high schools in Florida. Nease is still a good public school. Stanton and Paxon are fine if you aren't an athlete.
I raised both my boys around Tim Tebow. He used to come to our Pop Warner practices when he was at Nease. I'll take him as a role model any time.
And whether Tebow is a role model or not, I stand by my comment re: the evangelical crowd in Florida.
I’ll take your word for it on the academics at Ponte Vedra High. Don’t know what the current athletics are like at Stanton and Paxon, but I remember swimming/tennis/rowing as being decent programs.
Was the Fussball table (with the Nigerian and Spoon) still in 801 when you lived there?
I am sure the locals had helped themselves to it. Just like they helped themselves to my stereo equipment. Twice. Once during graduation, a nice touch. Took some tradecraft.
I lived in real downtown South Bend (325 Taylor) my junior year. Some of those break-ins happened while we were actually in the house.
replacing your electrical panels every ten years and on the coast every five.
One can move to anywhere and the places mentioned are AZ and FL?
Different strokes and folks, but those would be the last places I would consider. I would consider northern Arizona as a concession.
Warmer areas with beach: San Luis Obispo/Pismo, San Clemente-Oceanside-Carlsbad.
Multi-climate: Bend OR, Reno NV basin, Boise region, Santa Fe, too many places in CO to list.
I would even go the heavy mormon zones of UT before FL.
Ultimately, the dealbreaker for CA is the sky high taxes combined with public schools that are mostly unusable. While our current state (MN) has very high taxes too, those taxes at least go to top notch schools, parks, and other services for the residents. I'm not willing to pay sky high taxes for bullet trains between Merced and Bakersfield and $200k annual pensions for subway ticket takers.
Also, there are some excellent public school districts, although those are typically in the more expensive areas.
I think you’d be surprised at the level of schools in the districts you’d want to live.
Can’t help you on taxes, but we make the trade off for great home equity appreciation and active lifestyles.
for highly skilled folks. The jump in pay quite often offsets the higher state income tax. Happens to most folks I see move here. Especially the legacy auto folks moving from Michigan etc. Throw in home equity appreciation as the bonus.
Nothing wrong with Windermere and Dr Phillips area, but I personally think it's far too close to the tourists and you'll always be trying to get through that mess. There is construction everywhere in central Florida currently. But they are doing the right things. Isleworth is the private country club that pushes folks towards Windermere.
While Windermere and Dr. Phillips are the areas that most people know, I'd recommend taking a look at the Lake Nona area (Rt 15/Narcoossee Rd south of 528 and north of 192) . Other side of town away from the tourists, close to airport, access to 528 and 417. Quite a bit of new development over that way due to "medical city". It's a high growth area, so traffic isn't currently too bad, but as previously mentioned, everything in central Florida is currently under construction.
If you want West Nile.
Everywhere I've been in Florida south of the panhandle is chock full of ugly buildings with hurricane damage. And the panhandle is full of the guys in that photograph. Orlando is literally in a swamp. I haven't any idea why the city was built there in the first place. Nor can I understand why anyone would move there.
Florida - Hurricanes
Arizona - No Hurricanes (no, the monsoons are nothing like hurricanes)
Could it be that simply?
Mrs. Subalumt and I spend a lot of time in FLA. We continue to go there on vacation; glad we moved to Phoenix area of AZ and not central Florida area two years ago when we migrated south from greater Seattle area.
We looked at both (except for schools......all kids in their 20's and beyond) heavily when we were planning to relocate.
Best of luck.
Florida has way too many freaks everywhere
There are several suburbs here that have excellent public schools, Fox Chapel for one. I live in Squirrel Hill, which is part of Pittsburgh proper, and a very diverse neighborhood. The local public school here in my hood, Allderdice HS has a Gifted program that is excellent (my 2 oldest go there). There's also Obama Public HS, which also has an excellent IB program. The hurdle to get in is not impossible. Colfax and Falk are terrific middle schools. My kids went to a private middle school, St Edmunds. Access to culture, museums, restaurants is easy. I have grown to love it.
Grand Rapids is a wonderful town. I am there frequently.
I have friends who have lived in Cary, NC for 5-6 years now. Low taxes, low cost of living, great weather, terrific schools. They love it. And I have friends who just moved to Asheville NC. They are peppering me to move there one day.
Internationally, I'd move to Barcelona tomorrow if I could. Cheap, easy to work remote.
Condos collapse into sinkhole near Disney World...
In Tampa, too...
Eventually, a section will collapse from accumulated rainfall, and form another "lake" (aka sinkhole that has filled with water). Just pull up any map of Florida, and look at all the lakes that have formed over millions of years.
They do occur, but probably on the order of once every few years--not really common enough to worry about, but it is a possibility.
because, of course, there is a reaction going on.
I split time between Jacksonville, Orlando, Fort Lauderdale, and Tallahassee. Each region of the state is different and unique, based on the demographics of the people that migrated there.
The jort wearing Gator fans are typically located north of Orlando and east of Tampa.
I'd look at Siesta Key or something else on the Gulf side. While I love Fort Lauderdale, the area is crowded and full of New York transplants.
If you really want to go wild, look at Key West. Island life isn't for everyone, but damn do I love Key West.
Don't live in Florida if you don't live on the ocean. The best places are on the Treasure Coast--Stuart, Jensen Beach, Vero Beach, etc.
But go ahead and live in Orlando if you want to. There you can spend days drenched in sweat, being eaten alive by mosquitos, and listening to the growl of giant reptiles who want to bite your legs off.
We will be down for a week helping her get settled. Any recommendations in the area for food, drink, activities? We will be doing a Cardinals game one day down in Jupiter but I have never been in the Vero area.
We vacation in Vero every 2-3 years
Steak (if you absolutely need it...too many good seafood places) -- Vero Prime
Breakfast -- Lemon Tree
Citrous Grillhouse and the Ocean Grill (more old school, but right smack dab on the water).
That’s where I grew up and plan to move back in retirement, at least part of the year. Stuart and Vero are far enough from Palm Beach and Orlando, respectively, that they’ve been spared some of the really bad growth. All of the rest of you stay away.
you should consider Denver metro/Fort Collins. Sunshine all year long, skiing close by, good schools for kids, a short plane ride to almost anywhere you would want to go.
How anyone can afford to move into that market unless you are coming from a larger market. Housing is insane out there now.
I guess that it depends on your current situation but I would compare it favorably to areas like Phoenix, from a price standpoint. Areas like Greeley, CO Springs, Windsor are going to be a little bit more reasonable but there are pockets of places everywhere.
If you can look past the -31 degrees F winters, liberal government and concomitant sky-high taxes, Minnesota is paradise.
If Florida, check out Tampa over Orlando. On the water and lots to do.
We have a lot more sense than that.
I wouldn't see any appeal to Orlando. Maybe one of the nice areas on the Gulf I hear about?
Both my sister and her husband work from home, and they chose to settle down in an Atlanta exurb (Canton, way up north in Cherokee County). Almost all of their neighbors are northern transplants, and I'm guessing there are plenty of nice neighborhoods around any southeastern cities that are similar. Certainly better people to rub elbows with.
Also, I'm guessing you'd be a little more likely to find a new client if you were in the orbit of one of those cities than Orlando or any smaller place in FL.
I think we should step in and make another offer for their HQ. And they have recently contracted with a local distributor for some of their food distribution I believe.
GR is so much nicer than it was when I was growing up (70's). It has it's issues (public transportation, etc). But over all it is a great place close to some of the nicest scenery in the state. An only an 1 hour and 40 minutes from ND.
Seems nice. Upbeat downtown.
What is that crazy huge grey castle like building south of town?
I drive by it everyday. It's an Apartment / Retail complex built by the family of our former Secretary of State - Terri Lynn Land. I can't imagine actually wanting to live there. but hey, it has a Lion on top!
I hate going popular, but it really is a nice place, on the ocean, and much more "normal" than Florida.
Good dude
they are actually Georgia fans/alumni who put that on that get up one year at the Cocktail Party to get a rise out of Florida fans. Is that correct?
Traffic is brutal. And, to make things worse, half of the drivers on the road are tourists, which means that they have no idea where they are going. Plus, the city is landlocked and swampy. What's the point of living in Florida if you are not close to the beach.
It's a little larger, it's got a coastline, it's got major sports, it isn't haunted by Walt Disney's victims, has a better airport, etc.
It’s certainly got more senior citizens and beach bums than your normal town, but it’s oretty nice. I can’t say what it would mean to raise kids here, but my wife’s cousin and my godson here seem to be getting by just fine. Plenty of good restaurants, though focused more on beach dining, good amount of museums (Dali and ringling brothers come to mind), plenty of family friendly things to do outside of the beach, and you have plenty of pro sports, shows, and other night time entertainment.
Other than that, what BI said. Treasure Coast.
I personally like Pinellas County (Clearwater and the beaches) better than Tampa. Treasure Island is great, and so is Madeira Beach, which is right across John's Pass. It's touristy, but if the beach is your thing, it's pretty great. Tampa is easily accessible, and the Rays are in St. Pete.
for the reasons you stated. I wouldn't want to be there mid-Summer, but then again, I don't want to be in Illinois when the progressive income tax passes after they just added $1.4 billion/year in expense with the minimum wage increase they passed. But hey, at least we won't have any nasty tort reform or pension reform, and we have legalized marijuana and big expansion of gambling to look forward to.
We almost enjoy July and August more than this time of year. If you're in the sun it gets hot but generally if you're in the shade there's always a breeze. That or jump in the water. Personally I'll take the Florida summer over the Chicago winter any day.
Hot? Turn on the AC in your car or house. Jump in the pool or the ocean. Wear a short sleeved shirt. Don't be Irish.
If Florida is the choice, at least live near the beach.
Michigan sucks