They were a mismatch.
While one reason my ex-wife is such is due to my devotion to football, my unofficial bachelor party she did come out with a bunch of friends to a strip bar in Canada and ordered me a lap dance. We knew our boundaries and didn't cross them. She used to be fun. Happily divorced and single despite the extreme legal and alimony costs.
I’m not surprised no one here agrees with it but I’ve certainly heard it come out of plenty of guy’s mouths previously. I feel like there’s a non-insignificant portion of the population that believes anything goes (hall pass) for the bachelor party. I’d assume most of us did 1 or 2 things during our bachelor parties that we’d never get permission for typically and will never do again.
Again, our Catholic schoolkid morality might not include this one...but I’m not the only one who has heard this before right? Is there a religious, cultural, or class divide that we don’t have represented here?
Get a pass or at least won't get asked questions about much else? Sure. There were hookers and blow at my bachelor party. But I knew where the line was. I didn't partake in the hookers.
Had to cancel the honeymoon in Vail
My wife had the flu.
At least I got 2 wonderful children out of the deal.
But mine was "bet at a roulette table," not "copulate with a stranger."
Weirdly, it really didn't change the shock value for me.
You moron.
They are the same guys that cheated before they got married and after they got married.
I can think of one guy that has only cheated once (he may have cheated at other points in time and I just don’t know that he did). The rest are just that kind of guy.
She is wrong. There is no “her side of the argument” because her side isn’t defendable.
I don't have a single friend who fucked a stripper at their bachelor party. Anybody who did is an asshole. Like Mario Lopez. Fuck that guy.
At my bachelor party I rented a boat and drank a ton of beer (not while driving the boat.) I have since rented other boats and I am in the process of drinking a ton of beer right now.
I would estimate the percentage of the population who thinks it is OK for men to have sexual relations at their bachelor party to be less than one tenth of a percent.
Because people are terrible
If you chose to do something wrong if you get caught you pay consequences.
at? Weekday or weekend house?
Take your Team Ellie crap if elsewhere!
I kid.
A few thoughts, in which I will try to do something other than simply replicate things already said:
1. If you marry a person, and that person then goes out and cheats on you, that's one thing. You made a promise, and the promise isn't conditional; if both parties intended to keep their promises when made, they're still binding even if one party acts in a manner incompatible with them. That's part of the deal. Marriage isn't like a contract for the manufacture of widgets, where A's obligations are discharged by B's first material breach.
2. But this scenario is different: John and Ellie got married when Ellie had cheated before and John didn't know it. That goes to the premise of the marriage; John probably doesn't need to settle for divorce, he probably has grounds for annulment based on fraud. The question he faces isn't just "should I stay married to a person who wasn't faithful," but "would I have been willing to marry someone who already wasn't faithful and who had hidden that from me"?
Obviously only John can answer that second question for himself. Certainly if---as is entirely reasonable---his answer is "no," then he should do as he is doing.
3. (Cue tangent): at the same time perhaps people generally oughtn't to date for seven years before getting married. I guess if John and Ellie were high-school sweethearts and spent some time dating long-distance during college that wouldn't be as long a time as it sounds. But without running through an entire set of assumptions, I bet they're not 24, and that this might have played out differently had (a) they gotten married years ago or (b) they had thought more carefully about the question "do I want to marry this person" from the outset of their relationship.
John was a senior and Ellie was a junior. They married after John finished grad school.
She sounds like the type who ends up banging the 15 year old in her class
Is it possible John was the only man she had been with up until the stripper? I'm not sure if that's a mitigating factor, but maybe it could be if he wanted it to be.
Give the ensuing events.
In some ways that makes the whole thing even weirder.
Who would possibly think it was "normal" for somebody to fuck a stripper at a bachelorette party?
1.) A complete whore
2.) A very naive fool who lacks life experience under the influence of her party girl maid of honor
You have to be way beyond conventional levels of naive for (2). Because you not only have to be naive enough, in the standard sense, to accept the story that it's "normal," you also have to be sufficiently unmoored to conclude that "normal" is the same as "acceptable."
I also wonder what the true n for this sort of thing is. How "normal" is it really? Nashville has become the bachelorette-party capital of the country in the last few years. The groups I see roaming downtown do not tend to exude an "I'm here for a little chaste fun" air. (Ask the same question for the other sex as well, but they don't seem to stand out the same way.)
...whether more than just Ellie witnessed that Virginia pounding. My money says that the maid of honor did. I’d even wager that she left the stands to join in while the stripper planted a pole at midfield.
My wife did not attend this party, but two of our friends girlfriends did.
They were just as shocked as we were. They did say they weren't in the bride's presence all the time, so it may have happened, but they were unaware.
Their opinion is the maid of honor talked her into it, they weren't very impressed by her.
That might add a layer to the story
Paul Morse (Jason Lee) is a good guy. When his friends throw him a wild bachelor party, he just wants to keep his conscience clean -- which is why he's shocked when he wakes up in bed with a beautiful girl named Becky (Julia Stiles) and can't remember the night before. Desperate to keep his fiancée, Karen (Selma Blair), from finding out what may or may not be the truth, he tells her a teensy lie. Soon his lies are spiraling out of control and his life is a series of comical misunderstandings.
Is Ellie sure she had sex with the stripper? This could all be a comical misunderstanding.
Unfortunately, after 20 minutes there was a commercial break and I flipped to another channel and never returned to the movie, so I don’t know how things turned out for poor Paul. Julia Stiles was much cuter than his fiancée, so I kind of hope that he either slept with Becky or ended up with her in the end.
Similarly, if Ellie must choose between her love and her lust, I hope she follows her heart rather than her now famously ravenous nether regions.
and I would be hurt, but I think I could eventually get over it. I would at least try, especially if Ellie has otherwise been a great girl. And it sounds like an isolated incident.
Hell, people fuck up. It doesn't mean that they should never be forgiven or given a second chance. Not that I would recommend it, but something like this might end up even strengthening their relationship for the long term. Maybe it will promote better and more open communication in the future.
I would be inclined to believe it because she's always been very sweet and otherwise worshipped the ground he walked on. Our wives/girlfriends always thought she was great.
To "worship the ground" the guy walks on then do something like that because "doesn't everyone do that?"
How is she handling the divorce? Devastated? Has it already been filed or just threatened?
I don't say that to be sexist, that's just the best word to describe her.
She's very sweet. As I posted elsewhere, the conventional wisdom is the maid of honor talked her into it. We don't know her reaction because our only connection to her was through John, and none of us have spoken to her.
would she tell her husband she banged a stripper and not thing he’ll fire would rain down?
“Hey, hon...so you are saying you wouldn’t bang a stripper at your bachelor party?”
“Well, that’s interesting...because at my bachelorette party the male stripper banged me...no biggie, right? Right?”
I’m guessing she wanted out of the marriage and wanted to drop this bomb on him. Or wanted to see if he was interested in an open marriage.
That scene is how it went down in my head.
Sister? Long or short-time friend?
She should be personally pleading along with Ellie to John.
I've never really met her other than a quick how do you do at the wedding. I do know John's not a big fan.
I think John's got the right idea getting out of this one.
Did Ellie just casually bring it up in conversation like it was no big deal?
He began to wonder
My answer might change if she had come to him acknowledging a terrible mistake and begging his forgiveness. But the fact that she is defending her decision and, presumably, continuing to hang out with friends who are the kind of people who also condone this? No way.
Whether he wants to stay or leave is up to him. Personally, I’d be out the door and I wouldn’t look back. And I wouldn’t be ashamed of it, either. Anybody who asked would hear the same answer, too. “Whoa, you left after just 6 months? What happened?” “It turns out my ex thought it was OK to have sex with a stripper.” That ought to pretty much explain it.
What Ellie did seems quite a bit more serious.
Letting Ellie off the hook here will not make John more mature. It will make him a sucker.
I mean, didn't she also just basically play poke a man?
This is out of a bad porn movie.
It’s not like she got drunk and made a huge mistake and is begging for forgiveness. Then you can go to counseling and hopefully he can find forgiveness. This sounds like, yeah I did it, but I was in my right because of some made up BS rule. What happens if she goes to Vegas, or bangs a former bf (where she thinks it doesn’t count if you already had sex with the guy), or meets a celebrity in her top 20, or bangs a guy in a different zip code. Oh it’s all ok because of some rule she believed when she was 16. I don’t see how he could ever forgive her.
And as others have mentioned did her other friends know? For the rest of his life he will not only know that his wife cheated on him with a stripper but everyone else will know now too, it’s not just their secret to worry about. I also wonder why the stripper? Was it a midlife crisis decision, did she always think she could get a better looking guy and this proves it, so she looks down upon her husband? That won’t last. Just way too many questions and disturbing morals and thoughts for me to want to stay with this woman if I were him.
Did she bang the stripper in front of everyone? The other girls get involved? What type of porn are we looking at here?
The stripper’s behavior is indeed unethical and he should be fired.
He came back from honeymoon in Italy back in 77. He said they hadn’t had sex. She told him she had sex with the singer of the band the group of girls had gone to See at a club for her bachelorette party . He was devastated . I asked one question . Do you love her ? He said he did. I said forgive her.
They ended up having 2 children.
She passed of cancer about 22 years later
...but yes, it's true, as now revealed, that before taking the bar exam I embezzled funds from my employer, just to have one last fling of doing what I want. Trust me now!
Mundane, serious answer: Her behavior is recent evidence of substantial immaturity and profound lack of respect for this fellow. Now, people have the right to be immature and disrespectful, and this right is exercised at four-way stops every day. But it bodes very poorly for having the kind of relationship that I think is minimally necessary in a marriage.
That is to say: WTF??
Well said, kb. Her attitude about it is the most concerning thing to me—it didn’t even occur to her that John might be unhappy about it? Hmmm. If my husband did something like that at a bachelor party and acted that nonchalant about it, my trust in him would be shattered.
If John can forgive her, he is a saint, and hopefully she will learn from it. I’m not optimistic, to be honest; this doesn’t bode well for the future.
...if only to avoid having to send all those wedding gifts back.
the bachelorette party, he will never trust that she won’t do it again. If he does he’s a fool. A marriage without trust is doomed. He should move along quickly.
what’s her phone number?
he was a bartender. And she was wasted. And, if you must know, he didn't even come inside her...
You believe that?
I think we’ve seen that movie too.
I guess give the gal credit for trying that one
is almost a bigger dealbreaker than the act itself
Focusing on rationalizing it and not recognizing her wrongdoing, expressing remorse, asking forgiveness, outlining a path to healing... all seems bizarre and more indicative of moral and relational defect than the original act.
But I’d bet decent money that wasn’t the first time she banged a dude behind his back.
Will not be tomorrow. Good for him. I hope he finds peace.
If he can forgive her and get over it and realize it doesn’t overwhelm or undo their 7+ year bond, they should stay together.
If he can’t, they should not be married.
I say this all with the clear statement that she is in the wrong here.
Hope he's more Patrick Swayze than Chris Farley, but fair is fair.
wherewithal to stop what was about to happen. It's ultimately her fault, but the whole thing sounds out of control. I think it'd be tough to see her friends that were there and know what happened. Who could you trust?
"Hey John, I'm going out with my friends..."
I wonder who spilled the beans? (Other than the stripper/gigolo)
The only solution is for both of them to sign in here for an intervention/counseling.
I don't know what they were watching on TV, but the subject of hen parties came up. I guess a raunchy one was the subject, and John was laughing about it.
Ellie came back with, "What's the big deal, everyone does stuff like that, it's part of the tradition."
John: "I didn't do anything like that. Did you do something like that?"
Roll the ugliness.
Sounds like her MoH convinced her it was some of tradition to bang the stripper, and Ellie was flakey enough to fall for it. So blame it on the MoH and bury the hatchet.
Still worthy of some hellfire from John, but maybe it could be an opportunity for them to define what fidelity means for their marriage. If they are otherwise a great couple, closing the path to redemption may be something they might eventually regret.
Unless there are other things going on in the marriage, by itsself this would seem to be a huge but forgivable sin in the bigger scheme of life unlike, say, banging the fed ex guy or something.
And/or a horrible liar.
kind of acceptable “coming of age” event. The fact that she could casually blurt it out is beyond awkward. She completely misjudged and was trusting that he would view this behavior “casually”. He needs to understand where that came from...friends? Movies? Book? His past behavior she has knowledge of? Who knows? That questioning may give him some understanding/closure.
The whole thing’s sad. She seems very unaware and convinced that she was simply following a tradition. Therefore, it is not a big deal. That’s a big disconnect. What else is okay? Post man?
I hope there’s not a long list of weddings where she’s been a bridesmaid. If it goes in a divorce/annulment direction, he may be able to get a group rate...
it came about like this? Call me crazy, but I don't think she is all the remorseful about it.
And, like others have mentioned, I would be surprised if this was the only incident. I also suspect others knew as well, and decided to keep it from "John" also and didn't seem to interested in persuading "Ellie" to be thruthful about the event.
My wife and I are quite happy.
...I can't blame her for wanting to sample another dick before walking down the aisle. John is right to be pissed, but a divorce seems rather extreme.
Come on, guys. Women are human too.
C’mon Charlie, have you seen their dicks??? They’re the size of these sausages!
I kid. But that is pretty bizarre, unusual I think for bachelorette parties to involve the bride to be banging a stripper. I think women generally frown up that. If she grabbed it, or even popped it her mouth for a minute in the heat of the moment, I suppose that scenario would be more plausible. It would also be cheating. But I suppose more in Bill Clinton’s definition of sex.
I have heard of plenty of bachelor parties where there were pros working it, and many attendees, including the groom got into it.
By work it out, I mean tell her wants to reconcile by pounding one of her bridesmaid's, and then divorce her.
What’s the standard of what is allowed at your bachelor/ette party and what’s not?
I feel like after 7 years he shouldnt be shocked and shaken by her actions and if this was the only problem in the marriage or with fidelity that they would breakup.
...if she gave it up for the stripper but never for John.
I know you said other than that, but I can't get over that one. It's not a little mundane detail not to bring up in 7 years.
typically come up in your relationships?
It was not covered in our Pre Cana class.
Now, right?" part early on.
knowing after this much time.
Their relationship.
This never came up?
He’s either a complete fool or she really wanted to bang that stripper at that moment and made up her philosophy after the fact.
This was her only time.
handle to make this post and I applaud you.
Ok maybe I have an opinion: cheating is cheating.
I’ll bet the group likes Ellie
Jesus
A standard backroom response.
But my snap judgement is that John is definitely in the right here
Actual question to my friend, a maternity nurse, when the 9mo preggo bride birthed a biracial baby after banging the Bahamanian masseuse during her bachelorette weekend.
Spoiler: she and her hubby were honkies.
Unless the stripper was a chick.
I mean, did her friends watch her bang the stripper?
Either way, banging the stripper at one's bachelor/bachelorette party seems a little...over the line.